The ethical question

I don't think that any degree is required for her job. Regardless, I wouldn't have anyone that lists such degrees as an assistant.

 

Sorry my fellow Forum members that my early reply was not appropriated. I was pissed that our Veterans struggle for jobs; especially Government jobs. While we have Government employees utilize diploma mills as their credentials for qualification. Regardless if Kelly uses her diploma mills for promotion or not...she still has integrity problems. The bottom line is, if they do something in the dark...we should bring them to light.

 

You are correct in being pissed Tekman. Most if not all government agencies are required to give vets a 10 point preference. Also, certain jobs are only to be filled by vets, for example, a veterans rep. , DVOP disabled vet outreach program, etc. Funding exists specifically for these vet positions. As a Senior Job Steward, I find myself weeding out non conformation in filling these positions. By non conformotion, I mean non vets doing work that is supposed to be done ONLY by vets.

But I digress. In recent years, government, like any other employer, has become more an more savy with the advent of the internet. I have colloborated with our agencies HR/Personnel Board to ensure that degree are checked. What is being done now - Check of a schools accreditation by both USDOE and CHEA websites. This is a simple and quick process. Governement has also been refined in the fact that are are both NA and RA accreditors. Most now list "degree must be listed by a NA or RA" as being "recognized". Further, the applicant is required to hand over a copy of their degree, along with transcripts. Side note - I see this listed on many government agencies now - properly accredited "correspondence" coursework is accepted.

Do some slip through the cracks? I suppose. Here is the risk. How did applicants with mill degrees with pass the degree screening process? Did someone above them return some kind of favor and look the other way? I don't know. But these types of tactics are starting to become more and more rare. Too many scandals have come to light for someone to "let someone slip through the cracks".

As far as someone listing a degree that is an outright mill? I am not sure how that comes in to play. If the degree is not required for the position, or was obtained after the government employee was hired, it kind of changes things. Most likely if this type of situation comes to light by officials or the media, the employer will order the employee not to list a UA degree. What other disciplines may be administered depends on each government agency (sectors) contract.

I will throw another issued that used to be deeply discussed here. SA degrees (state approved). There was case that was resolved years back. It involved a state that was listing some SA degrees as "illegal to use". The court stepping and said this action was incorrect, and the state agency was ordered to remove all such references. Of course this does not pertain to outright diploma mills where no coursework is done, and degree are merely sold "After 15 days for XXXXX amount of dollars. Having said all of that, I would always advise some to obtain an accredited degree.

Just some food for thought,

Forgive any types as I have not had any coffee and just woke up.

See ya broheim,

Abner :smile:

 

What's the worry about legal action when you can easily report this stuff anonymously.

Considering that there are thousands and thousands of legitimately qualified people who worked hard for their credentials and spent hard-earned money to get them over years of dedication to the goal, and they still can't get a job, while these scammers are holding a position they lied to get; those scammers deserve no mercy.

 

I think that would be a far stretch... it would seem to me that when someone publicly posts their "credentials" they ought to know that those may be questioned by anyone who sees them. At the end of the day, if a person chooses to not only obtain a fraudulent educational credential but to utilize it for their gain, they are indeed committing a crime (e.g. "fraud", which is defined as "an intentional deception made for personal gain" by wikipedia). One can not - neither morally nor ethically - stand by while another person commits a crime.. wouldn't you say?

 

In the case of the fake degree-holders working in medical fields, I'd say quietly advising any relevant regulating bodies might be an appropriate course of action as the well-being of others is at stake. Outside of that, it'd make sense to be more directly affected before getting involved (e.g. your child has a school principal with a fake degree).

 

Not really. He's a perfusionist and likely earned certification through his Cleveland State BSHS program. The mill degrees are purely for his ego.

 

Just an update - the person removed their "mill school" from their profile. I guess they got the message!

 

Very nice.


As for the legal ramifications, what if you saw someone that worked in whatever field (let us say a bus driver) outside drinking excessive alcohol, or abusing a drug on a lunch break, and went in to report it to their supervisor? You have now interfered with their employment. I guess I am just confused on the legality and the reality of the situation. There are tons of things that you can be sued for, but reality isn't always in line with them.

 

Not the best example because drug use is illegal. The use of a mill on a social media site like Linkedin or Facebook somewhat removes your sense of privacy (I think). I called a cab company the other day because the cab driver cut me off then flipped me off while screaming. I reported the issue and said, "This guy represents your company with your name on the side of the cab, just wanted to make you aware" Is that different?

 

As far as those listing Kennedy-Western credentials, if they are not claiming to have an accredited degree required for their position, I would say this is still controversial and I cannot say for sure the person is being intentionally fraudulent, because to my knowledge, Kennedy-Western was not offering "illegal" degrees though some might certainly argue they were/are inferior, and ultimately that is why they were shut down.

Interestingly, a woman from my town did get a doctorate from Kennedy-Western before it became Warren National or whatever. She was an administrator in our school district, but I do know that a doctorate was NOT required for her job, and she "earned" this credential while already on the job, so it is not what got her hired.

What I don't know is if she got a raise for this credential when she reported completing her "doctorate."

I knew she got the doctorate because my kids were in school at the time and told me that now everyone had to call her "Dr. G_______."

I knew she did it "online" but I never thought to question where she did, never looked into it at all, until....

One day, there was an article in our local paper about her and she was referred to as Dr. G______ and it listed Kennedy-Western as the school! By that time I was already enrolled in NCU for my own doctorate program and had done plenty of research about accreditation and I was very aware of the Kennedy-Western name, and that it was not accredited. Being in the school system, I was alarmed to say the least because even if the degree is not required for your position, it certainly must be RA if the person expects a pay raise or promotion based on the credential. Other than this one thing, I have never had anything against this woman and I have worked with her and found her to competent and pleasant. If she was to be brought down, I probably was not going to be the one to do it...but invariably, I suspect I may have unintentionally done just that.

I told my husband about this article just in regular conversation, and then he was talking with some teachers who were complaining about this particular administrator..Dr. G. Well he then informed them her doctorate was not accredited!

Um, I think these teachers did want to bring her down a peg and this was the ammunition they needed. I can only speculate what happened but I have seen plenty of articles about that woman in our paper since then and mysteriously, not one of of them put Dr. in front of her name, or mentioned KW. She is now retired and on the school board. In spite of everything, I think the whole situation was more from naivity and ignorance than anybody intentionally doing anything wrong. The school district chose not to publicize this and I'm likely the only person who noticed they no longer refer to her as Dr.

 

He doesn't state he is an RN and he's not listed as a doctor at the Cleveland Clinic. So whether he is a perfusionist or not I'm not sure he should be in any surgical room.

 

I had marijuana in mind but I didn't say illegal drugs. Maybe they are taking a sleeping drug, or any legal drug that can impair their ability to drive. Also, if you are aware of it, and more than one person is aware of it, then the sense of privacy is probably already gone anyway.

 

Being in a surgical room is what a perfussionist does. As was already pointed out, he learned his job at Cleveland State. The mill degrees are just fluff.

 

Professional ethics are still part of an education regardless of discipline. Fluff or no fluff, this person does not belong in a position of responsibility. I would not trust my life in an (OR) to someone that was flagrantly unethical in the display of their professional and academic credentials.