SUNY-Albany Beats Harvard, Yale, and MIT in Rankings!

Albany tops party school list, again

• ALBANY, New York (AP) -- The State University of New York at Albany returned to No. 1 on the list of party schools, while Brigham Young University kept its title as top "stone-cold sober" school in an annual survey of American college life.
  
  The Princeton Review's report ranked Albany seventh in the use of hard liquor and marijuana, ninth in beer drinking and first in "students (almost) never study."

 

Not much to do in Albany except to smoke marijuana and to drink hard liquor and beer.

 

Well, I'll wear my school's last place in the "party" category with pride.

"Stone Cold Sober" Tony Pina
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino
Alumnus, Brigham Young University

 

My Jewish pipe-smoking coffee-drinking friend who has taught at Brigham Young for many years says he has learned to deal with those "problems" -- but the one that he still finds challenging is stopping all activity to turn and face the flag during the morning and evening bugle calls.

 

Hi John,

Does your friend teach in the ROTC program?

Funny, I never heard a bugle the whole time that I was there, although they do play the national anthem in the morning and evening. Of course, when that happens, the fountains freeze in mid stream and the football passes freeze in mid air

Tony
(Who can't play bugle, but who can play Jimi Hendrix's version of the Star Spangled Banner)

 

I was in a UC Berkeley extension course a number of years ago. The instructor was a BYU alum. He told the class how nervous it made him being on and around the Berkeley campus - particularly Telegraph Avenue.

I told him I feel the same way whenever I'm in Provo.

 

I'm with both of you...I'm just as nervous in Berkeley as in Provo.

Tony

 

When I lived in Salt Lake City, I dated a female 19 year old jack Mormon from Minnesota living in Provo. Attending the "Y" for her was an interesting trial since she loved weed, alcohol, and (pre-marital) sex - a lot. ANY of these infractions could get her tossed out!

But she gamely wore her defiance as much as she could. Stake visits (by Church members) were the biggest continuing hassle, provoked by her non-attendence, although she was adept at covering it up (eg, "just visiting friends in SLC Sunday").

Yet she performed invaluable services to her straight Mormon friends. She counseled many utterly naive girls and women facing marriage about the realities, mysteries, and future pleasures of sex. For instance, once she dragged a girl-friend to SLC to see an XXX-rated movie (this was the late 80s). Such bold bravery must be admired by any lusty man.

Hence, I know this "nervousness", even though this atheist Gentile dosn't share it.

-Orson

PS The above Sarah Ferguson look-alike did graduate with a degree in English from BYU.

 

Orson,

Interesting...I haven't hear the term "Jack Mormon" in over 25 years. Let's see, your friend would have signed a honor code that she obviously had no intention of heeding, forged some ecclesiastical endorsements to be able to continue enrollment (they are required annually) and generally lied about her activities to university and church people (okay, "covered it up").

She really ought to go into the diploma mill business. With that level of integrity, she would be a natural. Why in the world would she ever pick BYU in the first place?

Tony
Who, in actuality, is not nervous in either Berkeley or Provo.

 

As a BYU alum myself, I found that the atmosphere made it easy to study. However, I know there were plenty of ways to "party" the LDS way. Great slopes were close by and there was clean fun aplenty to be had. (remember those mint chocolate brownies from food services by the way? ahhh....i can smell the Brick Oven from here.)

What I don't like about BYU is the crud I have been hearing lately on them not issuing transcripts for those who are either inactive LDS, or have left the Church. I hear this is being done at BYU-Idaho and BYU-Provo...and I actually know a guy who was on the receiving end of this. There has to be some accreditation issues with that practice if it is not downright illegal.

BYU always has these issues surrounding academic "freedom" but the transcript deal is ridiculous.

-Still stone cold sober myself.
-Did you hear that Wheaton now allows dancing? It was one of the more fun things at BYU.

"rise and shout the cougars are out...."

 

With all due respect, where in the world did you hear this "crud"? It sounds like the myriad of "Mormon legends" that I hear. There is no way for employees at BYU's academic records office to check on the activity or inactivity of LDS Church members. I know several graduates of BYU who are not active in the Church--none of whom has any problem obtaining their academic records. I have requested my BYU transcripts about half a dozen times over the past decade. No one from BYU ever contacted my Bishop (or anyone else) to verify my membership or activity status. There are no databases of "inactive" LDS members.

I have known many people from many universities that have had trouble getting transcripts. I have a hard time swallowing this one...do you have any other evidence of this besides "a guy"?

Tony

P.S., I do remember (fondly) those brownies and great pizza at Brick Oven!

P.P.S. Incidentally, as a student and teacher at BYU, I had far more academic freedom that I have had at the 3 state affiliated institutions of higher education for which I have worked.

 

Ah, thread drift! From party schools to accusations about Mormons.

At any rate, I'm clearly going to need to throw a massive, semester-long party to try and bring Harvard up in the rankings.

You're all invited.

 

I was all excited that crimson was a text-color option. So much so that I forgot that I'm colorblind and I can't really see it.

 

Tony,

You had no trouble getting a transcript because 1) you are a BYU graduate and 2) you are not a student there anymore. For me, I have had no issue with transcripts because of the same circumstance.

Section 4-4 2 f, of the BYU policies, says EXCEPT "Alumni records which contain information about a student after he or she is no longer in attendance at the University and the records do not relate to the person as a student." This section would apply to us and would be the reason we have no problems with transcripts.

So, the bottom line is...DO NOT attempt to leave the LDS Church, or go inactive, if you are student there. First, make sure that you leave the school then leave the church.

In the same section of the policy, 4-4, the big kicker they can use for not releasing a transcript is..."5. Other cases as determined by the University Policy on Registration and Academic Holds OR AS DETERMINED APPRORIATE BY THE UNIVERSITY."

Not that long ago I talked with a non-LDS professor there who told me that she/he fellowships with students who are afraid to leave the LDS Church because of the possibility of transcripts being delayed or not issued. AND naturally this professor cannot be named because of jeopardized employment, or at least the prof told me such. It is a real concern there and not just Mormon legend.

If you think I am going to give names here on anything associated with BYU or the Church I won't. I know firsthand what sort of retribution can come via the COB. In fact, when I turned my resignation letter into the LDS Church, I got called into one of the Director's offices, AT WORK, and was asked for an accounting of what was going on. I was in dread of losing my job from this. AND...I am no longer invited to the local BYU Alumni Chapter meetings. BUT, BYU still keeps calling my wife and I for donations even after we said to not call anymore. Now, tell me how this Director knew that I had resigned...as he was not even in the same Stake?

One more item. I am a no longer a member of the LDS Church. However, I am a member in good standing in another church now, even on the board of elders. I looked at doing their BGS with an emphasis in family history. I submitted all the paperwork, along with my pastoral endorsement, but was denied admission to the program because I am no longer LDS. I did meet all the other criteria.

I did not check the box on the application that asked me if I am a former Mormon. That threw a red flag up to them. I graduated there in the mid 80's with an engineering degree. I need my transcripts from time to time for licensing purposes and educational endeavors. After that BGS incident I became concerned that I might not get transcripts, or at least it might be a bit more difficult. After chatting about it here I am going to fill out a request form and see if I have an issue. I will let you know how it goes. (I'm not too sour on that episode, though. Those are the rules, there. I sort of had an idea which way that would go when I saw that checkbox.)

Anecdotally, the above is not Mormon legend. When I was a missionary I did hear many Mormon legends. One of my favorites was about this other missionary who had a broken leg.

The missionary went to this gypsy lady and she did some incantation on him. His leg was "cured". The Mission President found out about this and called the missionary in. He railed on him for his deed and then proceeded to lay his hands on him, by the power of the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood, to heal him. This then exorcised the demon that was in him and his leg was broken again. Now that's Mormon legend.

I am grateful for my BYU days. My wife and I enjoyed our time there. We had a blast, and received top notch educations. Looking at how things turned out, I think I might have instead chosen instead to go to Illinois. During High School, I only applied to BYU and Illinois. My Dad was reluctant to pay for anything but the Y, though.

Incidentally, this topic is really veering from the "Stone Cold Sober" thread. Sorry about that.

PS: Many professors there don't feel that they have much freedom. They are not about to go telling the media of it either. I
don't think Michael Quinn or Brian Evenson felt that way at all. Evenson said, in his resignation letter, that there is a real
problem with academic freedom at the school and cites Bateman's unwillingness to acknowledge the AAUP Academic
Freedom Association. Personally, if they don't feel that way I think they should leave and find another school.

 

I grew up surrounded by Mormons in southwest Washington State.

Sober, yes. Fun hating? Absolutely NOT!

Mormonism is a complete mystery to me rom a theological standpoint nor have I ever had the slightest curiosity in that direction, but Mormons were good friends to me. No one EVER attempted to convert me.

Besides, is there really anything so wrong with a strict standard of personal deportment while in college? If I had been sober and studious through college, I might not have wasted so much of that precious time and (parents') money chasing skirts. (Well, jeans by that time, but you know what I mean)

 

When I was an undergrad (during my first try) I had a good friend who was a Mormon, and another mutual friend who was converting.

The missionaries could not be alone with a woman, and I was wondering what the LDS Church was all about, so I sat in on some of her conversion tutorial sessions. The missionaries didn't try to convert me once.

There are some things that the Mormons have done (as an organization) that make my blood boil. Trying to missionize me when I make it clear that I'm not interested isn't one of them.

 

Better than being forced to face Mecca five times a day. I believe that was the case in Afghanistan before we liberated it. BTW, down as I am on organized religion, given the major, I would not hesitate to attend a school with religious affiliation. BYU, owing to Mormon missionary activities, places a very high priority on workable foreign languages instruction. I doubt if there is any college in the nation that offers more foreign languages at a higher level of practical instruction.

 

Absolutely. The atmosphere there helped me to thrive in school.

I come from a long line of Mormons. It's not so much of a mystery anymore to me. It is a mystery how I am treated now in my family(my wife's family treats her the same way). They basically disowned us after we left. Shunning might be a strong term but one of my wife's sisters told her that, "she no longer considers her her sister." Now, maybe that's a mystery. I did end up losing some good friends once I left, too.

In general, the Mormon people are a fairly moral bunch.

Oh, believe me, even with the rules at BYU there was plenty of hanky panky going on. I lived in Deseret Towers one year and the police arrested the guy next door for possession(this was early 80's). Then, just recently, there was the BYU football team rape/pornography/alcohol scandal.

No matter what school, or what moral environment in the world, there will be that element that strays. This is true at BYU, Wheaton, or Bob Jones.

Maybe you just weren't mature enough to go to college at that point. You have heard that "youth is wasted on the young." Maybe education is often that way, too. The flip side is that many others were serious students at young ages, even at schools like Illinois and Southern Illinois(where many i went to HS with went to college). And those didn't have the regs that BYU had.

 

I'm surprised he can still teach there being a pipe smoking coffee drinking man. However, being a Jew is added points at BYU(LDS get Patriarchal blessings, from Patriarchs, and this tells them what tribe of Israel they belong to). The LDS feel especially close to Jewish people, and even built a Jerusalem center. The BYU employment code says that even faculty have to abide by the standards of the university. However, maybe he doesn't have to follow all the rules spelled out in a temple recommend.

Many people walked very very rapidly in the morning as that time approached. It wasn't good conduct to run, then everyone knew what you were trying to do. You walked like crazy to duck inside a building before the music played. If you were caught outside on a day when it was 10 degrees, and a 40mph wind, it was bone chilling.