State of Hawaii Sues Frederick Taylor International

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by JE Brunton, Sep 21, 2001.

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  1. JE Brunton

    JE Brunton New Member

    The State of Hawaii, by its Office of Consumer Protection, filed suit today against Frederick Taylor International University (a dissolved Hawaii corporation) and its principal Mansour S. Saki(a CA resident). The suit alleges that the defendants violated various provisions in Hawaii's Unaccredited Degree Granting Institutions Law (Hawaii Revised Statutes Chapter 446E)and seeks injunctive relief, restitution, civil penalties and other equitable relief.

    Jeffrey E. Brunton
    Staff Attorney
    Office of Consumer Protection
    State of Hawaii
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    What I want to know is what California is going to do about their approved schools that set up fake "sister" operations in other states to award all the degrees California won't approve them to award. FTU/FTIU has been running this scam for a long time. Pacific Western is another.

    I suppose instead, FTIU will just set up shop somewhere else, and California will continue to turn a blind eye. But California should remove their approval of the FTU portion of this fraud, as well as from any other school that pulls this stunt.

    Rich Douglas
     
  3. mamorse

    mamorse New Member

    Hawaii 6, Mills 0

    Mark
     
  4. Gary Bonus

    Gary Bonus New Member

    Mark,

    How can you keep an accurate score when:

    a) Mr. Brunton does not release the information when a Hawaiian UDGI is NOT sued after an investigation is completed.

    b) Mr. Brunton does not release the information regarding the particular violations of specific provisions of Hawaiian law that the UDGI allegedly breached.

    c) Mr. Brunton does not release the information when the lawsuit is settled, one way or the other.

    In other words, the situation is not nearly as simple as your score card implies. Without more information, accurate scoring is impossible. It's good to see Mr. Brunton is doing his job, but there is a measure of unfairness in the selective release of only unfavorable information. At least that's the pattern so far. Especially the announcement of an investigation commencement, but only the announcement of completion when a lawsuit is initiated. No announcement here of investigations that are completed with no lawsuit initiated, which leaves the impression of a never ending investigation of affected UDGIs. Settlement information is not announced here either. Therefore, based on information regularly announced here, how could any UDGI involved possibly "win" even if they are not sued after investigation, or after an amicable settlement, or maybe even successful defense against the lawsuit?

    Gary
     
  5. Anyone can release any information that they have -- surely any UDGI which has, after investigation, corrected any misunderstanding, can release information itself.

    I do think a scorecard is simplistic. And it would be nice to have a link to the complete text of the suit and the specific violations.

    For excerpts and links to full text of Hawaii law, see http://distancelearn.about.com/library/faq/blfaquslawhi.htm

    Hawaii Office of Consumer Protection website is at http://www.state.hi.us/dcca/ocpnew/about.html
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I agree. In fact, I feel it only "counts" when the proprietor(s) go(es) to jail. The Fowlers, Reddeck, Sinclair, Geruntino, Kirk, Weinberg...those people did time.

    A fine paid from ill-gotten gains isn't punishment, it's a payoff. Being shut down isn't punishment, it's a moving expense. In those cases, the owners simply set up shop somewhere else. Nothing is solved.

    Rich "Hang 'em" Douglas
     
  7. mamorse

    mamorse New Member

    Dear Gary, Kristin, and Rich:

    The amount of consternation that can be aroused by the omission of an appropriate “smiley” in a brief post meant as support, albeit in a humorous way, amazes me. However, I see that the onus is clearly upon me to provide a more complete explanation of my thoughts and motives in posting my boxscore-like response to Mr. Brunton’s post. Note that much of what follows will most likely be regarded as “preaching to the choir”.

    • I regard academic integrity as the foundation of all institutions of higher education, whether such institutions employ traditional educational delivery modes or nontraditional ones such as distance learning programs. The presence and success of degree mills threaten to erode that very foundation. While there are a number of reasons that some academics still look upon DL with scorn, one reason, in my opinion, is the degree mill problem. Thus, the continued presence of degree mills is injurious to the fight for universal acceptance of distance learning as a legitimate educational delivery mode. It also cheapens the value of each and every legitimately conferred degree. Thus, if I get a vote, the mills must go.
    • As has been pointed out by Dr. Bear and others, the state of Hawaii has historically been a safe haven for degree mills. Therefore, I welcome and laud any attempt to reverse the status quo. Note that the efforts of Mr. Brunton and his colleagues on the behalf of the state of Hawaii in particular, and the integrity of higher education in general, will be known by very few of the citizens of Hawaii, let alone the rest of the United States. Fewer still will voice any appreciation or support of any kind. Let’s face it - taking on degree mills is not the high profile crimebusting that district attorneys normally engage in to make the short list of prospective nominees for Lieutenant Governor. No, these efforts will be directed by a handful of dedicated individuals who will toil in relative obscurity, fighting an enemy that few realize even exists. Their professional rewards are not likely to be substantial. If they do their job well, Mr. Brunton and colleagues can only look forward to reassignment to the next “bad guy” on the list. If they do their job well, they know full well that many of their prey will simply set up shop elsewhere, in safer locales. Ultimately, they are only responsible for what transpires in THEIR jurisdiction. Such is the state of affairs in a nation with a decentralized, federalist system in which a group of 50 semi-sovereign entities that cannot even bring themselves to agree upon a common standard for kindergarten are led by a toothless national Department of Education whose principal commitment to academic integrity consists of deigning to approve third-party nonprofit accrediting agencies that have accepted the burden that the DOE is unable and unwilling to bear. To get back to the original point, I was merely attempting to show some support to Mr. Brunton and his colleagues.

      Is the scorecard or boxscore approach simplistic? Of course - just as a boxscore for a baseball game does not tell the entire story; a boxscore cannot possibly relate the intensity of each individual duel between batter and pitcher, relate how far the center fielder had to run before making that breathtaking circus catch, give any insight to the excitement of the home crowd, etc. No, a boxscore is merely a listing of quantifiable benchmarks and nothing more. Let’s face it - if I list every victory scored by the mills, I’d be dealing with numbers too large to be recorded. Will each lawsuit guarantee the end of a particular mill? Not likely; while some may actually attempt a court fight, past history indicates that most mill operators will simply set up shop elsewhere.
    • In a very real sense, I regard the current state of affairs as a war. Each degree mill credential successfully sold represents another casualty - another individual driven by naivete, greed, or sloth to commit potential career suicide. Each new degree mill represents another enemy, yet another head of the unyielding hydra. Each degree mill that operates a single day with impunity represents a lost battle, and we’re already lost far more than any of us can count. Here I must disagree with Rich - by the same token, any impediment to the efficient operation of the mills represents a victory, no matter how minor the skirmish, nor how temporary the outcome. Shutting down a mill even for a few weeks, until it can re-establish itself in a safer location may even save a few naive waifs from making the greatest mistake of their lives. (Obviously, the many individuals who knowingly seek fraudulent credentials will obtain them, so long as even a single mill exists.) Do recognize that we live in a nation in which thousands of individuals are unable to decipher a simple ballot and a nation where paper coffee cups bear such warnings as “CAUTION! Coffee may be hot!”. Consequently, I cannot accept the premise that we do not possess citizens sufficiently gullible to be taken in by the mills. Also, mill operators who are constantly hassled by legal authorities, might, just might, seek another form of scam. (I realize many would find even this unacceptable, but one must recognize that conmen and hucksters have existed since the dawn of civilization. I have no doubt that the hucksters of the world will one day do battle with cockroaches for dominion over the planet when and if, the rest of homo sapiens ceases to exist.) Indeed, many “retired” mill operators have done precisely that, as related by Dr. Bear and others. Ultimately, no permanent solution will be possible until the international community resolves to recognize the problem, cooperate in fighting the problem, and allocate resources to the task. In the current international political climate, with the coming war on terrorism, we would be well advised to NOT hold our collective breath in waiting for the start of such a war to preserve academic integrity. Until then, I will root for the select few that do battle for us.

    So, each time a mill operator is inconvenienced by a lawsuit, I will smile. Each time a mill operator is forced to relocate, I will laugh. Each time a mill operator is shut down for good, I will pump my fists in the air as if my favorite team had just scored a game-winning touchdown. But, since my scoring has evidently offended the sensibilities of some of the regulars, I must apologize. As due penance for this apostasy, I shall henceforth restrict any and all future support for Mr. Brunton to private e-mail.

    I suppose it is also true that I’ve grown tired of alternating between hand wringing with the announcement of each new mill and cheerleading from the sidelines with the announcement of each new lawsuit by the state of Hawaii. I, and many others, must become active participants in this fight. However, that is a topic for another time, as this post has grown quite tiresome for me.


    Continuing to root for the good guys in private,

    Mark
     

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