Shades of John Gray

Gray's credentials validated?

http://www.marsvenus.com/page-in-template.php?degree.htm

 

I don't think there's any evidence the school in Switzerland existed at all, is there?

As for the CPU doctorate, I personally don't think it's a big deal. But add it all up and you have someone who has no recognized higher education, not someone who just topped off a list of accredited degrees with a California-approved doctorate. The CPU degree lools like the most legitimate one on the list!

 

A quick swing through Google reveals:

An Indiana University computer science professor who spent 1974-1978 as a research associate in psychophysiology at Maharishi European Research University in Seelisburg, Switzerland.

http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~chaynes/vita.html

A Cal State Northridge copyright acknowledgement for quotations from a book published by Maharishi European Research University Press in 1977.

http://www.csun.edu/edpsy/Gowan/copyackz.html

An adjunct philosophy professor at Plymouth State University in New Hampshire with a Ph.D. from Maharishi European Research University.

http://www.plymouth.edu/thirdtier/faculty_member.phtml?department_code=PY&facnum=jtboncheff

Reference to a Virginia Commonwealth University philosophy professor with a masters degree from MERU (and a Ph.D. from Berkeley).. He's also managing editor of the 'Journal of Consciousness Studies'.

http://www.etown.edu/news/1997-1998/newsrelease22-97-98.html

Reference to them on a University of Colorado page

http://dubinserver.colorado.edu/prj/kmu2/8.html

A Virginia State University psychology professor who spent time there in 1974

http://www.vsu.edu/isrr/cv/Oliver_hill_cv.htm

Mention in a bibliography

http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/doc/coombspapers/subj-bibl-clearinghouse/meditate-pt2.txt

Mentioned in the footnotes of a University of Hawaii paper

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/The%20Use%20of%20Meditation%20for%20the%20Management%20of%20Stress.pdf

I'm not making any claims of RA-equivalence or anything like that. But I think that the evidence is pretty clear that this thing really existed and that it was particularly active in the 1970's. I suspect that it was subsequntly deemphasized in favor of the American branch, which went on to become RA.

 

Barbara DeAngelis, PhD, author of books and infomercials on relationships also has a Columbia Pacific doctorate. Interestingly, she is John Gray's ex-wife.

Tony

 

I don't think either Hitler or Chairman Mao claimed to hold a doctorate!

The point was that the likes of John Gray must have a talent and appeal for millions to read their books.

The question could then be raised as to whether the likes of John Gray or Caroline Myss could have gone through a 'traditional' doctorate and produced a substantial piece of work that would have added to the body of knowledge?

The next question that could be asked is whether any accredited school would confer a/an(earned) doctorate on either individual on the basis of their published work/s?

 

Why is this "digging"? Normally, "digging up" information on someone implies revealing some embarrassing fact(s) about him/her, facts that person would prefer to remain hidden. John Gray has never hidden his academic background. Instead, he's relied (to great effect) on the laziness of publishers, editors, and the general public, to accept his degrees at face value. Well, some people don't. As Gray became larger, so did the target.

No one dug through his trash, or broke into some files. No one paid an informer for juicy information, no ex-spouse wrote a tell-all memoir. Some people are expressing their views regarding an aspect of Gray's background Gray himself tells.

 

And my point is that far more people read the works of Hitler and Mao. So, according to your logic, they must have talent and appeal, and apparently those are the qualifications for a Ph.D.

 

I'm confused by this thread.

I interpret it as a general attack on all graduates of state-approved schools. Is that accurate? Are all these graduates automatically frauds?

If graduating from a state-approved university marks one as a fraud, does teaching at one or helping to found one do the same? What virtuous motivations could possibly justify involvements with what, so we are led to believe, are fraudulent enterprises?

I interpret 'Cultnews' as using this degree issue rhetorically. Their real beef is that John Gray, arguably an adherent of unorthodox religion, has risen beyond his assigned station to a position of cultural influence. Hence the attempt to discredit him.

So, are degrees from a non-accredited university somehow different if the program is religiously orthodox? Bob Jones University, defiantly non-accredited, is almost worshipped here on Degreeinfo.

If the objection to John Gray is that his education leaves him unqualified to write mass-market books on popular psychology, then what makes Rick Ross qualified to head the Ross Institute and to advise governments on 'destructive cults'? Ross seems to be making more far more dramatic claims of specialized technical expertise than Gray makes.

And where does that leave the many licensed psychologists practicing in California who have CA-approved degrees?

If the objection is to Gray's use of the initials "Ph.D." on his book covers, then does that same objection extend to all of those California psychologists?

 

I don't have anything to say about that sentence, except I liked it so much I had to copy it.

I personally wouldn't call all unaccredited degrees bogus. (especially if they originated from BJU which I almost worship even though I wouldn't want anyone I liked to go there) I think that most unaccredited degrees are bogus but most are handed out for no significant work.

 

No, that is not accurate, as far as I can tell. I have reviewed this thread and I see nothing to support your accusations. Please inform us of the statements that you are basing this assertion upon.

First of all, I don't see anyone other than you mentioning the idea that graduating from a state-approved school marks one as a fraud.

Second, please don't tell me that you are going to jump on the "Duggle Ass" bandwagon. What's next? Implications that someone among us is posting from his prison cell?

 

Please bear in mind that there has been no call for the taking of any action against Gray. Unless, that is, he does not meet the qualifications of some professional organizations he belongs to. What those organizations might do is their business.

I recall it being pointed out many times (not here) that Dr. Laura does not have a degree in the behavioral sciences. It is legitimate to point that out given that Dr. Laura dispenses advice like pez. Same goes for Gray or any other advice giver. They offer their credentials as their credibility and that can be questioned.

 

John Gray is clearly under attack for some reason. Here's some evidence:

http://buzz.weblogs.com/discuss/msgReader$237

http://www.rickross.com/reference/gray/gray2.html

A number of posts in this and previous threads have echoed the idea that there is something seriously wrong with Gray's resume.

Then use whatever word you prefer. The fact remains that Gray is definitely being attacked. The primary reason seems to be that he earned a CA-approved doctorate.

If earning a non-accredited degree discredits the one who earns it, then how can one ethically be a founder of a non-accredited institution or teach at one?

If non-accredited degrees don't necessarily discredit those who earn them, then wouldn't criticism of John Gray's author's qualifications have to be a little more sophisticated?

My own position is that a few non-accredited schools have some educational legitimacy, even if their degrees have significantly lower utility. I've posted about a number of them. I also think that 70's-80's vintage CPU had some credibility and this Maharishi European Research University probably did as well. (Certainly others besides Gray were associated with it and its American twin did buy a bankrupt Iowa college's campus and eventually became RA.)

And I'm not attacking John Bear here. Frankly, I expect that he agrees with me.

 

Hi Rich. Thanks for responding.

I strongly agree with you that taking all of one's degrees at non-accredited schools definitely isn't wise. But I disagree that it necessarily discredits John Gray as an author of mass-market pop-psych books or justifies the kinds of attacks that he's receiving. (I'm not talking about you here, I'm talking about the stuff on the links.)

I have some sympathy for Gray because I'm a boomer like he is, and I was very involved in things 'alternative' back in the 70's. I could very easily have made similar choices (except that I'm nowhere near as good a writer).

The idea of totally lacking recognized accredited higher-education credentials brings us back to a topic that everyone here seems determined to ignore: Rick Ross and 'Cultnews'. Ross head up his own Ross Institute and tells us that he advises government agencies on 'destructive cults' and 'controversial groups'. (He says that he advised the FBI and the BATF on the Waco Branch Davidians, which isn't a pretty picture.)

But Ross' highest educational credential is an Arizona high school diploma.

http://www.rickross.com/cv.html

I agree strongly with that.

I think that the religious issue is probably what's motivating Ross and 'Cultnews'. Ross seems to consider Gray to be some kind of 'cult' leader, apparently because Gray is a man of unorthodox religious beliefs who, so Ross seems to fear, has the power to influence people through his popular books.

That's another reason why I sympathize with Gray. If I were a better writer, Ross might be going off on me.

Perhaps... but to the extent that the former are automatically discredited on the basis of their degree alone while the latter are accepted as legitimate?

I think that a CA-approved degree is probably an satisfactory qualification for an author of mass-market non-scholarly pop-psychology books. That's certainly less responsibility than serving as a clinical psychologist, attorney, business executive, test-pilot or clergyman. Or, for that matter, serving as the founding director and chief expert of an institute that advises courts, legislators and law enforcement on 'destructive cults'.

 

There is no doubt both these individuals had talent and appeal! But the 'logic' of my arguement did not extend to them being worthy of a Ph.D.

However, both being high profile political leaders, I have no doubt the former would have received an honorary doctorate, given time, and the latter may have received one (or many)! I have not read either biography for some time.

If you read my next post, I did ask the question (which still goes unanswered) as to whether any accredited university would give Gray or Myss a doctorate on the basis of their overwhelmingly successful publications.

 

No, of course not. Publishing success doesn't equate to academic excellence. While many dissertations have been turned into books, it normally doesn't work the other way around, except at degree mills.

Now, if Gray had a long, distinguished list of academic publications, and if those publications could be "strung together," and if those publications were of sufficient breadth, depth, and academic sufficiency, and if Gray also submit the underpinning research and literature review, and.....you get the idea. There are a few schools around the world that might consider the idea. But it doesn't sound like we're talking about such a case here.

(There are some unrecognized schools that some people would not call diploma mills that would do it, but that's not the same thing, is it?)

 

I've read Men Are from Mars and Woman Are from Venus. It's entertaining and makes some useful points for relationships. It is NOT a dissertation. It does not have the academic rigor that would be expected from an academic work like references.

 

Oh, I thought you were joking. The answer, of course, is "No."

 

Both John Gray and Laura Schlessinger have legal doctorates (although Gray's is an unaccredited one and Schlessigner's is a PhD in physiology from Columbia). Gray's website is refreshingly candid about his CPU doctorate (compared to many who possess non-accredited degrees) http://www.marsvenus.com/detailedbiography.php

Dr. Laura hold a California license as a marriage and family therapist and was an adjunct faculty in psychology at Pepperdine for several years. According to Gray's website, he is a certified family therapist. Both are certainly free to write books and dispense advice to any who will listen.

Tony Piña
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino

 

Actually the info about his degree is a very recent addition due to all the publicity.

I have checked his web site periodically for years and it has not always been there.

I wonder how many Bob Jones graduates state their school is unaccredited on their web sites and on their resumes?

Unaccredited is unaccredited, whether the school is a mill or not.