SCUPS PhD ?

I am looking at PhD programs and can not decide what I am going to do. Cost is an issue. I will complete my RA MS-ITM next year and I am starting to think ahead.

I am looking at the ScD in Management of Engineering and Technology from SCUPS. The ScD looks exactly like what I am looking for. I want to continue after my MS degree but don't want to spend $20-30K. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but I would not look forward to a Dissertation.

What would I do if the program SCUPS offers is exactly what I want but can not find an RA equal?

First, opinions on SCUPS.
Second, advice on RA programs that would match the ScD in Management of Engineering and Technology.

 

You have to ask yourself why you want to pursue a doctorate. Then you should really consider what you need in terms of the degree and the issuing institution. If you are really, really, really convinced that a SCUPS degree will meet your present and all future needs, then you might consider it. But this is a very difficult conclusion to reach.

Please do not consider taking a SCUPS doctoral degree because you cannot find a similar degree offered by a properly accredited (or foreign equivalent) school. You can find proper alternatives, even if you have to negotiate the finer details with the school you choose.

As for costs, I can relate. Still, comparing the costs of a degree from an unaccredited school with those of a degree from an accredited school is not fair; they're two different products. It would be like comparing the cost of an electric toothbrush and a regular toothbrush. In other words, no comparison.

Specific programs? I guess you could look at the subject index in BG 15.

 

Let me say that ITM is out of my field (social science). Much probably depends on what you hope to do with the degree.

SCUPS as you know is an unaccredited California Schools. That means limitations. If you just want to run around as a "PhD" you are probably fine. Some employers probably do not know the difference between accredited and unaccredited. For what it's worth mine does (will hire RA & NA but no UnA).

Next. Some of the cheaper options.

I think Northcentral is reasonably priced and that their PhD in Business can be tailored to several different disciplines (at least as I recall). http://www.ncu.edu As you know they are candidates for RA.

What you may also want to consider (although if you do not like dissertations a research PhD may present problems) are foreign options. Check out Australian & South African Schools. One example is University of Zululand. Under 2000 US dollars for the program and at least at one point they did have a number of different doctoral fields. One guy here got their IT and Theology faculty to cooperate on a joint doctoral program (doctorate would be from IT college). No residency in the cases I know about. I personally would go with Foreign before an unaccredited school. Cost is about the same (maybe much less) and the versatility is likely far...........far.....far.......greater. There are many AU & SA schools.

Good luck. Remember do not go cheap on an unaccredited degree in terms of $$ & work only to regret the the investment later (absolutely nothing meant to reflect on SCUPS). Spend a little more and invest more effort in something that will last a life time. Steve L. is fond of pointing out that you do not want to cap off an accredited BA & MA with an unaccredited PhD (that is what gets remembered not the Harvard BA). If at all possible in my opinion go GAAP.

North

 

Re: Re: SCUPS PhD ?

Getting a PhD usually implies that you want to influence people in some way (perhaps by saying you have a PhD), but usually through what you write (articles, theoretical inquiry, research, etc.) or consulting, or where it is you want to teach. To have a PhD also means that you'll eventually be wanting to be a part of a group of peers with PhD's. If you end up with a PhD that is not recognized you are probably doing yourself a lot more harm than good, because your ability to influence people along an expansive spectrum will be severely diminished. I know (personally) a number of folks with unaccredited PhD's. Some of same are saying they no longer listing them on their resumes.
Earon

 

Re: Re: Re: SCUPS PhD ?

Very thoughtful response Earon. Sound advice.

Where are you at in your academic journey? I seem to recall that folks here thought that it sounded like you put a lot of effort into your Masters program thesis.

North

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: SCUPS PhD ?

Well, for one I have taken a break from my HW MBA journey (a journey I quite liked) to undertake a PhD with a long established university in western Europe. A couple of years ago I was invited by a well-published professor at this university to become his student. I have already taken some trips over there and possibly again this May or June. In 2002 I collaborated on an edited book with a bunch of PhD types ("Organising in the Information Age"/ashgate publishing/2002). I'm currently collaborating on a second book due out in 2003. It was the effort I put out and learning I achieved in my Masters thesis journey that brought me the invitation to do the PhD.

To date I have written about 100 pages (setting up the theory), and am about to start the field research, made up of three case studies. The dissertation uses my mentor professor's theory to design a form of discourse analysis which is then applied to 3 different virtual communities of practice. The PhD is oriented toward organisational psychology.

I'll refrain for now from mentioning the university I am with for the PhD (I had some harrassment from a sociopathic degreeinfo reader last year, and he also sent idiotic emails to HW stating I had fake degrees). I personally don't care about such harassment attempts as I am quite public about my degrees, etc., but I prefer to spare my promoters from exposure to such stupidity.

I DO NOT recommend that anyone start thinking that having an unaccredited degree can get you into a European university for a PhD. What might get you into a European university is what you did and what you can do and if that will benefit your promoting professors and their university. Having a degree (accredited/unaccredited) means very little on its own (unless it demonstrates research ability - I'm referring to the ability to do a research doctorate, which is what most doctorates are in Europe). One's degree would be assessed as one of any number of factors desired by the professor you want to work with and the university chancellor (head of academic activities). One needs to know that professor's work and be able to discuss it with him/her, and one needs to demonstrate the ability to undertake research. For example, my professor is extremely picky about who he will work with. He will only take students who want to do postmodern research and have demonstrated that they can do research independently and don't need a lot of mollycoddling. While one is much better off with an acredited degree, one still needs to demonstrate that s/he can do the research.
Earon
(slaving away)

 

I find it intriguing that Northcentral is owned/controlled by the same man who owns/controls SCUPS, and that it has been reported here that Northcentral will not accept SCUPS credits or degrees.

Could this be a rare case where the left hand does know what the right hand is doing?

 

20 new schools applying for DETC accreditation???

I had a pleasant talk today with Reg Sheldrick, founder of Southwest University, one of the very few unaccredited schools to keep their Louisiana license -- because they are in the process with DETC.

Reg said that it is his understanding that something like 20 schools (including his) have applied for DETC accreditation, most of them getting their one-day team visits in April, with decisions coming in June. (Southwest apparently will have a fall visit and a December decision.)

The schools are apparently listed in the current DETC newsletter, which I do not have, and cannot find on line at detc.org. Since this is the time when people are invited to write to DETC with opinions, pro or con, it would be awfully nice to know who they are.

Does anyone here either get the DETC newsletter, or otherwise know? Could a list be posted? Thanks.

 

I guess the SCUPS PsyD and psych PhD are still accepted by the California Psychology licensing board and their JD is still accepted by the California Bar. But unless you want to be a psychologist or a lawyer in California, I don't think the school has much to recommend it...

Nosborne, JD

 

Hi Earon: Congratulations on your new doctoral work. Your prudence on identifying the school is well-advised, and I am imitating your example. Your advice about connecting with a European university also applies to research degrees in Oz and SA--know the fellow on the other end first, then formalize things.

 

My own limited experience with SCUPS is that they advertise in the newsletters of the National Association of Social Workers. Licensed Social Workers have been known to find the psychology doctoral programs attractive because they are already licensed and use the doctoral degree from SCUPS more as a marketing tool to compete with the legit Psychology PhDs in private practice. Of course, they may do some honest, valuable work during their studies but that doesn't necessarily validate the degree.
***Note to Randell - to a large extent, the dissertation IS the PhD. If you don't want to do a dissertation, maybe a doctoral degree simply isn't for you. That would be OK, not a crime, etc.
Jack

 

Thanks for the update Earon. Good luck to you with your doctoral work!

North

 

Does the California Psychology licensing board still accept the CCU PhD?

Nosborne, JD

 

If you want to work in the MIS field in industry, it won't matter if you have a PhD or a M.Sc since industry puts a lot more emphasis on experience and technical skills rather than education at the doctoral level. So if you want to stay in industry then your SCUPS degree will do it for you, but if you want to teach one day then the credential is pretty useless.