Rethink trade schools

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by chrisjm18, Jul 13, 2022.

  1. freeloader

    freeloader Member

    Medical school is four years, anesthesia residency is 3 years, but you typically have to do a year (traditionally of medicine or surgery) residency or more recently a transitional year before entering anesthesia OR you do four years of anesthesia, so it is really 8 years of training.

    Most nurses will not have completed all of the pre-med curriculum, so for a nurse to complete all the the premed, go to med school, and do anesthesia would likely take 9 or 10 years. I think a shorter and alternate path for others in the medical field makes a lot of sense.

    Yeah, I meant to say something about anesthesia just being one example. I think the basic idea should be true for others as well (nurse practitioners and PAs), but didn’t mention that.

    It is certainly true that there is a wide range of skill and ability amongst bookkeepers and tax preparers. I have talked and worked with some who were more knowledgeable than a lot of the accountants that I have encountered. I have also interacted with some who couldn’t tell you the difference between a deduction, an exemption, and a credit.

    But, I think your criticism missed the point. I forget the school, but there is a university that has been mentioned here that will admit people to its masters degree in tax who have passed the Special Examination for Enrollment (EA Exam) without a bachelor’s degree. Why shouldn’t this be more common. I am not saying that every person who has done a 2-night a week tax course for a few months at H&R Block to become a “tax pro” could cut earn an MAcc. But there are plenty of people out there, I am sure, who have worked and learned who absolutely could.

    My point, as I said, is that we would be better served with a system that would let people build ability and credentials as they go. Why is sitting for 3 hours/week for 30 weeks per year, for 4 years in accounting classes, spending other hours doing other classes, and most of your time NOT doing school better than working full-time actually doing accounting. Sure, there will be gaps in your on-the-job learning. But, it’s not like have an accounting degree gives you complete knowledge. My work is basically related to Forms 940, 941, and 1120S. During my accounting degree I never learned about the 940 and 941 and spent about a week on 1120S returns. Arguably, someone who had worked as a payroll clerk for a couple of years with no degree would have been better suited for my job than I am, but the job requires an accounting degree so they wouldn’t pass the initial review.

    Two final notes: the universities in the UK have had admissions standards for many years that allow experienced people without undergraduate degrees to pursue graduate degrees. If it was a total failure, they likely would have done away with these programs years ago. Also, in the UK as in the US there are master’s programs that are built for people with subject area knowledge to further that subject area knowledge. There are also masters degrees that don’t require specific subject area knowledge. Many MBA programs are like this (as, indeed, are a goodly number of MAcc programs). If you have someone who is fairly smart, can read and write well, who has successfully operated a business for 10 or 15 years, why are they unqualified for an MBA program, but someone who has a degree in fine arts who has not taken any business courses IS qualified for an MBA by virtue of their fine arts BA? Objectively, they aren’t. But that’s not how it works in the US. I think that is dumb.
  2. Alpine

    Alpine Active Member

  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    WOW! all this stuff passed me by... Never heard of "Pewdie Pipeline" so I Googled around. Sad. Never knew what you said about YouTube. Obviously true. I use it mostly to learn about music and computers, so they pass me by. Never heard of Discord either. Heard of IRC in the 90s -never on it. Thanks for the clues.
  4. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I made the thread on the school that will admit students without a bachelor's degree if they have the EA designation, but tax preparers are most often not EAs. If all you're going to do is tax preparation, you don't need a master's or even a bachelor's degree. If you want to become a CPA, then you need to know more than taxation. The length of work is not as important as the difficulty of work. Many bookkeepers are probably doing the equivalent of Intro to Accounting I and II. If someone has been a grill person at McDonald's for 10 years, they won't have the same level of knowledge as someone who has gone through culinary school.

    If you've been a successful business person for 15 years, do you need an MBA. What would you use the MBA for? Why not earn an undergraduate certificate or certifications? This goes into the territory of learning for the sake of learning and not building upon trade skills. Master's degrees are more for training researchers, post-secondary instructors, and qualifying for healthcare licenses. When you think about it, there are not that many occupations that require a license and a bachelor's degree or higher under governmental regulations. Almost all of them are in the healthcare field with accounting and law being the exceptions. There are alternative pathways to becoming an engineer depending on the state.
    nosborne48 likes this.
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    If I were to Do It All Over Again I'd probably get a BSET in electronics engineering technology. I don't have the head (or the imagination) to be a full fledged design engineer but I could have done pretty well I think in the technology end.

    The other possibility would have been accounting.

    Then again, back when I graduated from High School, the military were so desperate that West Point sent my father a letter suggesting that I might want to contact my Congressional reps about an appointment! This is for real. After my parents died, my brother found the letter and sent it to me.

    Wow. Life would have been very different had I gotten into a service academy.

    The cosmologists tell us that the universe might be completely predetermined after all. Calvin was right?
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    So choice is an illusion. Depressing thought.
  7. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Oh, and I agree with Johann about young women not liking ineffectual young men. Actually, that's not limited to the young. The one thing that can destroy a marriage faster even than infidelity is the husband not making an income.
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Calvin Klein was NEVER wrong. :)
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Ah... what do cosmetologists know -- other than makeup? That's just talk in the salon. :)
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    No, that other guy...the one from Geneva? He's dead now I think.
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Nah - don't know any fashion designers in Geneva. They might have a couple, but it's mostly a watches and fondue town. Very clean and tidy, though --and efficient.

    Oh -- now I remember. That guy. Right. I thought he was dead too, but now I'm not sure. I think he's been known to post here under an alias, once in a while. I forget what name he uses ... :)
    nosborne48 likes this.
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Johann, I think. In Geneva anyway.:D
    Johann likes this.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yeah. That's him. :)
  14. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Had a beard...old guy...driven out of France...strong opinions. Hm. May not be dead yet??;)
    Johann likes this.
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Three out of four ain't bad. Don't recall being driven out of France. I think I'd like it there - and behave. everything else - spot on!

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