Regionally Accredited Schools without a Bricks & Mortar Campus?

Rich - Then why don't more DETC schools proceed to RA?

ME - Because DETC accrediation serves them well

Rich - How many U.S. universities have you worked for?

ME - Obviously(?) none. I've worked for the same number of provincially operated colleges as you have RA schools.

Rich - How many RA schools have awarded you degrees?

ME - Obviously(?) none. I've been awarded 2 degrees from one of the top universities in my country.

Rich- I haven't attended a DETC-accredited school, but have you?

ME - Yes

Rich - Take transfer credits, for example. Many DETC-accredited schools will accept as many as 15 s.h. in transfer; almost no RA schools will do this.

ME- a few R/A schools take 120

Rich - And this (proctored exams) equates to quality? How?

ME - Doesn't hurt. Many people in this forum have expressed concern about schools without proctored exams.

Rich - Students don't have nearly the perspective possessed by faculty and staff.

ME- Not sure what this means.

Rich - And at which DETC-accredited school did you earn a degree? Or are we talking about a school that hasn't yet been successful at even the less-than-RA level?

ME - Never completed degree.


Rich - (me- People in CHEA and the USDOE, who have no particular axe to grind, say they are equal.) Yes, they do. But they don't make it a reality.

ME - I don't follow.

Rich - Research--mine, John Bear's, and DETC's--indicates this isn't true in practice.

ME - I don't follow

Rich - And I have no axe to grind at all.

ME - Other than continue the pretence that rock bottom R/A degrees are superior than everything else.

Rich - No vested interest in this (unlike you with CCU).

ME - I think my interest is no greater than your interest.

 

My comment about transfer credit practices of DETC-accredited schools was meant to be about graduate programs, but I omitted that key point. Sorry.

The rest of Dennis' post is either non-supported, or non-responsive at all. But that's what I expected. (Actually, it exceeds my expectations. At least he attempted to respond.)

In sum: Dennis notes that he's never graduated from a DETC-accredited school, attends an unaccredited school, has never worked for a school accredited at either level, doesn't understand the research available that demonstrates the inferiority (in terms of degree acceptability) of DETC accreditation, and ascribes unstated attitudes to me. Like tyring to promote certain RA schools as superior to DETC-accredited schools, which I've never done. And that I have a vested interest in this, which I don't (but he does as a student of a school attempting to get DETC accreditation). Throughout the rest of his post, he fails to provide any support for his positions. Even if it boiled down to two people and their opinions, I suspect I have just a little more insight (and a lot less to win or lose) regarding this issue.

 

By the way, I find it fascinating that the only people who impugn the quality of certain DL schools while posting on this board and elsewhere choose only schools from which I've earned degrees, and that the people doing so are all connected with unaccredited schools and/or have no degrees at all. I've yet to hear someone with a real master's degree, for example, have anything substantially negative about National University, or someone with a real Ph.D. actually refer to Union the way these trolls do. It reveals a huge bias and a narrow agenda.

I'm thrilled to have attended the schools I have and earned the degrees I hold. Those experiences, along with working with several nontraditional schools and a career doing education and training in the Air Force has provided me the insight and knowledge base I've enjoyed for 25 years. In the spirit of Levicoff, my degrees come from some of the most innovative, distance learning, regionally accredited schools there ever were.

 

And your opinions are supported by the fact that they are, after all, your opinions??

 

Coincidentally the authorities and accreditors responsible for your alma maters have also chosen to criticize them. But then nobody at these organizations would have a real masters degree, or would they.

I have 2 degrees from what would be considered one of the better state universities, were it located in the US. I am part way through a regional accredited masters program that has a lot more in common with Harvard than with National. I have taught at a couple community colleges that look like Harvard next to your Virginia degree mill. Do you have some mysterious lock on credibility??

It's interesting that you always have to defend your choices. Perhaps, if you had attended better schools, it wouldn't be so.

 

Very amusing coming from a student that is attending a school that has frequently been called a diploma mill in the news media.

Part way through? You're enrolled in two Master's programs at the same time? I guess that it was an attempt to brag about not finishing something? Or perhaps it was meant to indicate that you could get into accredited programs? I would be willing to make a bet that CCU has been called a diploma mill far more times in a google search than VIU. Would you like to take this bet?

Dear Dennis, you are the one that has claimed to have a mysterious lock on credibility because you've attended 4 (or was it 5) different distance learning schools. Would you like me to find your post for you since you've apparently forgotten about being such a hypocrite?

From a man attending an unaccredited school. This is extra funny because of the hypocrisy.

 

3 masters programs at the same time. I am in no hurry on any of them. I would never brag to you Bill - I don't have to.

I enrolled in CCU at the time I did because I had to before the DBA program disappeared.

Maybe, if all goes well, in 4 or 5 years, Rich and me can brag about our accredited doctorates.

VIU was listed as a degree mill with the Oregon ODA until someone threw a fit and got it delisted.

 

I don't "defend" them, Dennis. I'm PROUD of them. But I occasionally find myself responding to hacks who don't know what they're talking about. And again, talk of "better schools" coming from someone attending CCU is pretty funny!

 

Quote

"NB: I really detest this "better than your school" crud. "



:

 

Was it? Was it listed as a "degree mill"? Or was it placed on the list with all the other unaccredited schools identified by and to the ODA? What evidence do you have of someone who "threw a fit and got it delisted"? Do you have any proof such a thing happened? If not, then it isn't true. (It isn't. I sent a note to the ODA regarding Knightsbridge when some of that school's customers began shilling about it. It got listed right away. Then someone else contacted ODA, which put VIU on the list as an unaccredited school. But when ODA decided to differentiate between unaccredited schools and diploma mills, Knighstbridge became listed as a diploma mill and VIU as an unaccredited school.)

What proof do you have that VIU is a degree mill? Other than the fact that they're new and not accredited, what proof? What has the school done to indicate to you that they're a degree mill? The ODA, by the way, says they're not. What do you know that the ODA does not?

Again, Dennis, where's your proof? Or are you the one who called ODA to "de-list" VIU? (Silly, because no such thing even happened.)

I taught at VIU during its early years. I don't teach there anymore. If CCU fails to get DETC accreditation, will Dennis withdraw? Subsequently, if CCU fails to get approval from DETC to offer the doctorate, will Dennis withdraw?

 

I was just working on the assumption that unless I have other knowledge, all unaccredited schools are degree mills.

Some day I'll have to attend a school under a warning, just to see what it's like. Kind of like a straight guy going to a gay bar for the atmosphere.

 

Your actions seem to say differently.

There are still many other unaccredited doctorate programs to chose from.

CCU is still listed on the ODA website despite the many fits you've thrown, why is that? Perhaps it is because the CCU doctorate program is the one example of a school failing an official evaluation by the ODA? If it is the case then I would think that you'd owe the ODA an apology for things you said about them during your many fits.

 

Please note that I don't talk about the quality and/or efficacy of CCU's educative processes and outcomes. Other than the DBA-with-no-dissertation, of course. None of my comments in this thread have been about CCU's quality, just the value of (their lack of) DETC accreditation. and I find it laughable that a student (not an instructor, even, a student) at an unaccredited school has the temerity to criticize another unaccredited school, much less an accredited one. That you persist only reveals you for the instigator you really are, because there is no way to reconcile that.

 

I don't recall CCU being a topic here. Why do you keep bringing it up?

 

Quote

"Which, by your reasoning, means you attend a degree mill. No one else seems to be using that assumption as a working premise. Thanks for offering the self-defeating statement. It was great!"


I have first hand knowledge that it is not.



Warning???

We like our semantics, don't we. Substitute "in a world of poo" like when the USDOE witholds millions because they are not convinced the students are actually doing anything. Let's see the spin on that true statement.

 

Dennis says unaccredited schools are degree mills. He did so in this thread. Dennis attends an unaccredited school. Therefore, Dennis is taking his degree from a degree mill, per his own definition.

As for Union and the DoE, do you really think you're in a position to comment authoritatively?

The USDoE withheld Union's participation in the federal financial aid system and requested Union develop a method of documenting learners' progress in its unique, learner-centered Ph.D. Previously, learners produced documentation at the beginning (with the Learning Agreeement) and at the end (with the Program Summary, Transcript, and PDE), but any interim documentation was left to the learner and his/her committee. This was fine; Union has always focused on outcomes, allowing for flexible processes. It has a unique niche in the accredited academy in that regard. But the USDoE wanted to be assured that learners using financial aid were making satisfactory progress. Union developed a system acceptable to the USDoE, submitted documentation showing students were, in fact, progressing satisfactorily, and the USDoE released the funds. Of course, Dennis wouldn't know anything about that, but that didn't stop him from commenting.

Dennis, even a dim reader can gather these facts. Perhaps your need to re-hash them has a deeper meaning? No matter. I'm tired of your childishness and of responding to your vapid insinuations. I guess I'll have to keep correcting all of the incredibly stupid things you say--that's the price of not allowing you to spew unfettered your bile wherever you chose. (Besides, you and your lunatic friends have other places to do that.)
But engaging you in debate is like nailing Jello to the wall. It doesn't result in anything good.

Sincerely,

Rich Douglas, MBA, Ph.D.

P.S.: Again, in the spirit of Steve, let me know when you get a real doctorate. Then we can talk about mine.

 

Oh that's how you spin the USDOE problem. But that's exactly what I said. A better reply could have been "that's amazingly astute of you - now Union creates documentation to cover periods of dog loving"

 

Dennis, I believe that you are enrolled in CCU's program. I wasn't aware that this Bricks & Mortar topic would elevate to the discussion of CCU as I am also enrolled in the BS/MBA program and find it to suit my needs. I also am in hopes of CCU's accreditation as if you review the CCU bulletin that is newly posted for 2004-2005, you will see that CCU has changed the cost of the programs to a per credit cost to be in-line with DETC's requirements. Saved me money if this goes thru in jan 05. The new cost of the programs for CCU are as follows:

BS 62 per credit hour
MBA/MS are 162 per credit hour which is a fairly substantial increase.

Next discussion I would like to reply to is the Degree Mill issues. If I were to seek a Degree by purchasing one, I would not want to wait 1 academic year or 9 months per California Post secondary standards and do all the work to get one. Too many professors and instructors hold a degree from CCU. Degree Mill?? NOT

I chose CCU for the cost of the program and to better increase my general business knowledge as I am already established in my field of work. I looked into TESC and although regionally accredited, they rubbed me the wrong way with their tuition policy and I withdrew while lossing quite alot of money due to their refund policies that they held upon. They were requiring me to take less coursework etc. than CCU and were willing to give me credit for a D- in biology from a community college, YES, I still have the evaluation from my enrolling. CCU would not give me credit for it.
Is Regional Accreditation better than State Accredited or National accreditation?..Probably, but again, Is Bush better than Kerry? Everyone has there own opinions. It all really depends on what a individual wants to get out of it. Which brought to to my original question that started this Topic.
Can a Regionally Accredited University exist without a Bricks & Mortar campus of on-site classroom offerings. AS it has been pointed out with Jones Int. Univ. being a prime example. It answered my question. YES they can. I am not sure as to why some of the university's seek for DETC vs. Regional accreditation but nevertheless, I will be proud of completing my CCU MBA next year. hopefully accredited.
Again, I have enjoyed all the information I have received thru Degreeinfo, but again, there will always be disagreements in this arena. It's kind of like sports, we tend to root for our own team regardless of what people say. Again, thanks for all the input.

 

JNelson467

Nice post. I am enrolled in CCU to obtain my DBA for a very reasonable price. Subtracting the cost of the MBA, it will be about $1,000.

Nothing has led me to believe that it is anything other than a quality school.

This forum is particularly brutal towards any school that is not regionally accredited. If I comment on anything, a few prizes of humanity have to discount my comments based on the school I attend.

There are other places to post that do not allow personal attacks.

http://www.collegehints.com/boards/