Question about standards for degree programs.

Actually, you are somewhat correct. There is a math/science requirement, but it requires at least one 3 credit course in a math at least as high as college algebra. An additional 3 hours can be from a math or science course.

The written requirement is much more specific.
1. The student must write a minimum of 2,000 - 6,000 words in the course (one double spaced, typed page in 12 point type is 300 words). The level of certification depends on the number of words.
2. This written work must be evaluated on the effectiveness, organization, clarity, and coherence of the writing as well as the grammar, punctuation and usage of standard written English.
3. The student must be provided feedback on the written work submitted.
4. Teamwork or writing done by a group or team, class notes, in-class essay examinations, and term papers submitted too late in the semester to be returned to students in class cannot be used to meet the minimum word requirement. Drafts cannot be counted separately from final drafts as part of the total number of words completed during the course.

Courses are classified by the average number of words total for their written assignments. A course that is classified as a Gordon Rule 6,000 course will be counted as 6,000 words towards the total requirement of 24,000 words. You must write at least 6,000 words in the class in order to get the full 6,000 word credit.

 

The following is from the Florida Statutes

817.567 Making false claims of academic degree or title.--

(1) No person in the state may claim, either orally or in writing, to possess an academic degree, as defined in s. 1005.02, or the title associated with said degree, unless the person has, in fact, been awarded said degree from an institution that is:

(a) Accredited by a regional or professional accrediting agency recognized by the United States Department of Education or the Commission on Recognition of Postsecondary Accreditation;

(b) Provided, operated, and supported by a state government or any of its political subdivisions or by the Federal Government;

(c) A school, institute, college, or university chartered outside the United States, the academic degree from which has been validated by an accrediting agency approved by the United States Department of Education as equivalent to the baccalaureate or postbaccalaureate degree conferred by a regionally accredited college or university in the United States;

(d) Licensed by the Commission for Independent Education pursuant to ss. 1005.01-1005.38 or exempt from licensure pursuant to chapter 1005; or

(e) A religious seminary, institute, college, or university which offers only educational programs that prepare students for a religious vocation, career, occupation, profession, or lifework, and the nomenclature of whose certificates, diplomas, or degrees clearly identifies the religious character of the educational program.

(2) No person awarded a doctorate degree from an institution not listed in subsection (1) shall claim in the state, either orally or in writing, the title "dr." before the person's name or any mark, appellation, or series of letters, numbers, or words, such as, but not limited to, "Ph.D.," "Ed.D.," "D.N.," or "D.Th.," which signifies, purports, or is generally taken to signify satisfactory completion of the requirements of a doctorate degree, after the person's name.

(3)(a) A person who violates the provisions of subsection (1) or subsection (2) commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.



Basically, this means that in Florida, if you claim to have a degree, that it has to be from an accredited institution (NA or RA). If it is from a religious organization, then the degree must state the religious nature of the degree. A degree earned in another country must be approved by the U.S. Department of Education as equivalent to a U.S. regionally accredited college degree.

 

With some additional research I found that the following states also have laws regarding claiming having a degree when it is from an unaccredited institution.

Indiana
New Jersey
North Dakota
Oregon
Washington

I also found an article online about the University of Southern California trying to get the State Legislature to enact something similar. I could not find anything in the California Statutes at the time of this writing.

 

There is the religious exemption that is why I'm in an acceptable Dr. of Ministry degree program through my church. There is one exemption not listed but upheld in court a relgious title in the ULC you can legally donate to get the Reverand Doctor title or a Rev. Dr.. Since its then registered and confered just like the title Father or Bishop or any other one they have. Its legal to use. Also there is nothing is the law that forbids the holding of a diploma. And at Rushmore University I also hold a Diploma of Humanitites & Letters. Since its not a recognized degree or title in the law its a grey area they do that because many schools offer diplomas, there is no law that says I can't hold both. And use the legal one only.

But your right I should be only mentioning it as a diploma here as well so I will.

I'll just have to get a religious doctorate and use that when the time comes.

 

Bill,

I second your motion - when someone posts that they are trying to beat the system, and then say it is all in fun...it doesn't hold water. IMHO, Mr. Kolter is looking for a way to obtain academic credentials without performing the necessary work. If I am wrong, then the onus is on Mr. Kolter to prove otherwise.

 

Academic credentials, who needs those I don't plan to teach at a university and don't need an advanced degree for any career plans. I just want a legal title Dr. in some form for the prestige and to impress your average person and since I'm a ULC minister I see no reason that can't be a religious degree. If I get the Doctor of Metaphysics course degree its a doctorate of a religious nature isn't it?

If I get an education that would be nice but secondary. But the Dr. of Ministry is a nice and in-depth religious program that appeals to my eclectic religious ideals. So its a long term goal. Who would not like to study many religious traditions including Wicca and Druidism not to mention other courses. And get a valid Doctorate for $1000 or so. I have no problems with that at all.

 

Given the (everchanging) number and variety you include in your signature blocks, apparently you do, Thomas. Justify and twist it any way you like, but it seems as if you keep coming here looking for validation of your views, and it isn't going to be forthcoming anytime soon.

How's it going with your "Google Groups?"

Dave

 

But if you want a prestigious and impressive religious title, why stop at "Dr."? For example, you could also become an officer in the Salvation Army, and legally use titles like "Captain", "Major", or even "General" !

I have no doubt that the average serviceman or veteran would give a religious-based military title the same degree of respect as the average college professor or graduate would give a religious-based "Dr." title.

 

"I just want a legal title Dr. in some form for the prestige and to impress your average person..."

Thank you for validating my point. The bottom line is that you want the title without performing the work. There are plenty of diploma mills that will satisfy that desire. You have tried to dance around this, but in the end, your desire to have a degree with no work keeps coming forward.

"Who would not like to study many religious traditions including Wicca and Druidism not to mention other courses. And get a valid Doctorate for $1000 or so. I have no problems with that at all."

Here's the link to the "rigorous" requirements for the ULC doctorate: http://www.skepticfiles.org/aj/courses.htm. Gee, what a selection. I can pay $15 for the "Doctor of Motivation" degree, or I can break the bank for $100 for the "PhD in Religion."

In this "valid doctorate" there are no comprehensive exams, no dissertation, no methodolgy courses, etc. Compare the "rigorous" ULC doctorate to the University of Iowa's program:

http://www.uiowa.edu/%7Ereligion/doctoral.html

I rest my case.

Shawn

 

I think if a body has the legal right to grant a degree and is clear on the requirements, then its not a fraud in that sense. Church degrees are not academic degrees in the true sense, but they have a right to grant them.

In any case, you can only use them for church purposes really.

 

Actually, refer back to 1(a). It only said regional or professional (not national) accreditation are acceptable.

 

I think you're right Ted. I had just scanned it quickly and keyed on "recognized by Dept. of Ed", which does recognize DETC. However, DETC is not a regional or professional accreditor.

 

Am I missing something here?

817.567 says this:

817.567 Making false claims of academic degree or title.--

(1) No person in the state may claim, either orally or in writing, to possess an academic degree, as defined in s. 1005.02, or the title associated with said degree, unless the person has, in fact, been awarded said degree from an institution that is:

(a) Accredited by a regional or professional accrediting agency recognized by the United States Department of Education or the Commission on Recognition of Postsecondary Accreditation;

Section 1005.02 as referred to in 817.567 says that: "Accreditation means":

1005.02 Definitions.--As used in this chapter, the term:

(1) "Accreditation" means accredited status awarded to an institution by an accrediting agency or association that is recognized by the United States Department of Education and that has standards comparable to the minimum standards required to operate an educational institution at that level in this state.

As I see it, RA or Na are both legal degrees!

Bill

 

Let's consider your goal, "for the prestige and to impress your average person". You keep repeating that ULC is legal. You make the rather silly irrelevant statement that claiming a Rushmore University diploma is legal. However, let's reread your goal again, "for the prestige and to impress your average person". You haven't earned and aren't interested in earning the standard degree yet your stated goal is "for the prestige and to impress your average person". That is what makes you a fraud. You want to claim something that you are not, therefore you are a fraud. You wish to deceive "your average person" into believing that you have earned something that you have not earned. Whether or not your action rises to the level of criminal fraud or not does not in any way shape or form absolve you from being a simple non-criminal fraud. Although I do consider it wise on your part to want to avoid committing criminal fraud.

Maybe "your average person" might be deceived by your fraud but not many people around here are going to be deceived.

 

Bill,

You may have found a small contradiction in the law. 817.567 (1) (a) clearly states regional or professional. That doesn't include national.

For schools operating in Florida that are nationally accredited, they are covered as long as they are:

817.567 (1) (d)
Licensed by the Commission for Independent Education

which is a specific commission setup in Florida. So nationally accredited institutions operating in Florida and granting degrees to Florida citizens, as long as they meet (1) (d), should be okay.

However, a Florida resident holding a degree from a nationally accredited school from outside of Florida might be a problem for the holder.

This thread has turned into a nice discussion about the law.

 

So if I moved to Florida and listed my NA accredited degree on my resume in search of employment, I would be in violation of Florida law?

Bill

 

Hmmm, that sounds like PRIDE. It's definitely not being humble. Isn't PRIDE one of the seven deadly sins?

 

In my opinion, yes. However, I don't believe that you would get charged, even if you got caught. Also, I'm not saying that your employer would even notice or hold it against you. A nationally accredited degree is definitely better than not getting a degree or obtaining a non-accredited degree.

Disclaimer: No matter how much I might sound like one sometimes, I AM NOT A LAWYER. Nor am I a law enforcement officer or hold any occupation that makes my legal opinion valid in any way.

 

MrLazy

Understood! Neither am I a Lawyer.
Just in honest discussion, though, I do believe the law could be challenged.
Good discussion.

Bill
ASTET, Penn Foster. ASEET Penn Foster (in progress)

 

I think you may misinterpret the terms of above a bit.

Under 1(b), Provided, operated, and supported by a state government or any of its political subdivisions or by the Federal Government;

The wording of supported by a state government or any of its political subdivisions should include all state approved universities even if they are unaccredited. Licensed universities are LEGALLY supported by the state government, because they need to comply with the laws of the state. Otherwise, there will be a conflict of statutory system amongst states of USA. For example, it will be unreasonable if one can legally use his/her degree approved by BPPVE in CA although his/her degree is granted from an unaccredited institution, while his/her degree is not legal in Flordia for displaying or using. BPPVE should be a political subdivision of CA state government under this case.

Under the law principle, reasonable and equity are always the key factors to be considered.