Proud day to be Republican

Selling the ANWR:
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N10621178.htm

and nominating a guy for Att Gen. who doesn't think we need to abide by the Geneva Convention. A fine day for short term thinkers everywhere.

 

Actually, Mr. Gonzales is even worse than you seem to think. It was he who wrote the legal opinion for the President stating that the President is not hindered by statute, treaty or constitution from using torture whenever and wherever the Prsident thinks it necessary.

I guess the President is "reaching out" again.

 

Nosborne's post typifies the extreme elements in the Democratic Party.

New York Senator Chuck Schumer (D), who has a pretty good ACLU rating, said Gonzales is a good choice for AG.

 

Khan,
What you and the other libs haven't figured out yet is that the country doesn't really care what you think about these issues anymore. While you're free to express your opinion, no one is listening anymore. The liberals have lost.

Go Gonzales!!! Go Bush!! Go Conservatives!! We have a mandate!!!

 

Um. 'Scuse me, but since when is insisting on the rule of law an "extreme" position? Since when is opposition to total power in the hands of a single man "extremeism"?

What did we fight WWII for?Or the revolution, for that matter? Is our dedication to genuine freedom so flimsy that we will give up our protections if the dictator is to our liking?

WAKE UP, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!

 

I'm telling ya...Canada has great beaches!

OK well maybe they are lacking in the beach department, per se...

Consider a move to Canada?

 

2 things. First, this "mandate" thing is getting old. 51% Is not a mandate. If this was a Roosevelt, Reagan, or Nixon type victory, I would agree with you.

Second, you can jump around for joy all you want, the conservative rule won't last forever, it can't. Never has never will. Eventually the party will have so much control that simple nuances of opinion will turn into party splits, and the republicans will battle amongst themselves and them the opposing party will come back into control. Carl Rove even mentioned this while on Meet the Press.

Also, as an independent, I find your rooting for Gonsales to be a bit disturbing. Are you such an idealogue that you won't say anything negative or listen to criticism about any republican/conservative?

 

It's a sad day in America when those who oppose torture are considered extremists.

 

That's exactly right. And it's unfortunate and un-American.

You see, when a person is elected to office, they are elected to represent ALL of their constituents, even the ones who did not vote for them.

An ethical elected official will at least listen to his/her constituents who have differing points of view. May not agree, but will listen.

But I have no doubt that you are correct in saying that the neo-cons absolutely do not care and will not listen to what their non-neo-con constituents think.

 

Really. Any semblance of our being civilized is slipping away. What ever happened to us leading by example instead of by force?

 

I know that this whole torture thing is a tough issue, and I don't claim to have the answers. But I do have a question: Should terrorist organizations that operate independently from a government be afforded the same rights as soldiers? Does a government, United States or otherwise, have a right to torture the members of terrorist organizations and groups, so that vital intelligence can be gathered? I think so. So maybe I'm extreme.

Look, let's not forget that the terrorists aren't exactly playing by the rules. They fly passenger jets into civilian buildings. They bomb civilian market places. They bomb civilian planes and trains. They kidnap rescue and aid workers and decapitate them, or shoor female aid workers in the back of the head - then release the footage to be made public. They openly announce that every American civilian is a target, as well as America's allies. They openly announce their desire to obtain nuclear, radiological, chemical, and biological weapns to be used on United States civilians and its civilian allies. But it's wrong to subject these people to humiliation? It's wrong to beat one of them, shock one of them, starve one of them, or otherwise torture one of them as a means to gather information that could later protect hundreds or thousands of civilians? It's all disgusting...but unfortunately, in my opinion, quite necessary. Again, I guess I'm extreme.

Pug

 

<<You see, when a person is elected to office, they are elected to represent ALL of their constituents, even the ones who did not vote for them,>>

That's not possible, no matter how hard one may try...and I DO feel like Bush is trying. There will ALWAYS be large groups of people that feel they are getting the shaft, even under extremely popular presidents that win elections in landslide form. Part of being a good leader, and I believe Bush is a good leader, is making the very tough decisions even when the popular tide is not with you. Bush is not perfect, I have my issues with his policies, but he was the better, safer choice in my opinion.

Pug

 

Glad you're thinking about it. From my POV, I hate for us to lose what makes us great. Not sinking to their level makes us great. Keeping a moral compass of right and wrong. They don't have our money or weapons so they can't fight a conventional war. They stupe to horrendous things to shock us. But we remain "right" in my opinion if we don't become what they have claimed we are all along.

 

From now on, every time an American soldier is captured, they will be subject to torture. In some cases, they would have been anyway. In some, they would not. But since America now embraces torture, why would any of our enemies NOT torture our soldiers? We will certainly torture theirs.

And who, exactly, is "they?" Arabs? Muslims?

Many of the people that Gonzales endorsed torturing did not fly airplanes into buildings. They did not bomb civilian planes and trains. They did not decapitate people. They did not target American civilians. And they did not try to obtain WMD's.

In many cases, they were misguided young men who thought they were defending their village from a hostile invasion.

Yet because they have the same skin color, ethnicity, or religion as the 9/11 attackers, then most Americans think it is just fine to torture them.

Do you realize that many of the people "humiliated" at Abu Ghraib weren't even combatants? They guy with the hood and electrodes -- he was arrested for car theft.

This humiliation had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. It was simply sport. Call me crazy, but I think that is categorically wrong.

Moreove, what about the 20+ "enemy combatants" who have mysterious died while in U.S. custody?

Well, if that's what this were about, that would be one thing. But it's not. America has now embraced torture, and it is already being used against common criminals in Iraq who we have no reason to believe have any connection to terrorism.

And this is just the beginning. It's just a matter of time until they start using the same tactics at home.

 

BLD was taking pride in the fact that his esteemed leaders won't even LISTEN to those who disagree with them.

It's not about "getting the shaft." It's about the arrogance of those who belive that 49% of the public do not even deserve to have their views heard.

 

Ah, but remember that the ENTIRE House of Representatives is up for re election every two years. Wait and see. Wait and see.

 

<<Glad you're thinking about it. From my POV, I hate for us to lose what makes us great. Not sinking to their level makes us great. Keeping a moral compass of right and wrong. They don't have our money or weapons so they can't fight a conventional war. They stupe to horrendous things to shock us. But we remain "right" in my opinion if we don't become what they have claimed we are all along.>>

I wish I could agree with you. The problem is that we can't win a war if we are the only side playing by rules, no matter how great our advantage with regard to weapons and technology. It's all very sad.

Pug

 

And who, exactly, is "they?" Arabs? Muslims?

Terrorists, and anyone that supports them.

<<Do you realize that many of the people "humiliated" at Abu Ghraib weren't even combatants? They guy with the hood and electrodes -- he was arrested for car theft.

This humiliation had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. It was simply sport. Call me crazy, but I think that is categorically wrong.>>

I'm not excusing them in all cases, but let's not make the mistake of thinking that every American soldier is into humiliating captives for sport either.

Moreove, what about the 20+ "enemy combatants" who have mysterious died while in U.S. custody?

What about them?

<<Well, if that's what this were about, that would be one thing. But it's not. America has now embraced torture, and it is already being used against common criminals in Iraq who we have no reason to believe have any connection to terrorism.>>

Do you have any data to back up this accusation? I'd be interested in seeing it.

<<And this is just the beginning. It's just a matter of time until they start using the same tactics at home.>>

Sounds a little paranoid to me.

Look, war is ugly and dehumanizing, it's nasty and disgusting, it's violent and repugnant. Let's not take the moral high ground here...we can't. As much as I would like to, it's just not realistic. You can't put our men and women into these types of situations and reasonably expect them to maintain proper moral etiquette (sp?). These things happen in war...they always have and they always will. The only difference is that today's war are fought while video tape is rolling and people with digital cameras are snapping pics. People actually see the face of war now.

Pug

 

It's actually 49% of the electorate which is less than a quarter of the population.

 

Go narrow-mindednes! Go superficial thinkers! Go erasure of human rights! Go crusades and race wars! Go fundamentalist Christianity!

Thankfully, about half the country IS listening. After another 4 years of Bush, I'm sure it will be more. Go Blue!