Problem with Bush

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Laser100, Aug 29, 2004.

  1. Laser100

    Laser100 New Member

    The plain fact is that Kerry has shrapnel in his leg from serving in the military and Bush has a cheer-leaders uniform from his draft-dodge.

    Bush wants to take everyone’s privacy away with the Patriot Act by making it permanent.

    If someone is always monitoring you by tapping your phone, internet, and home are you ever really free?

    Privacy is a fundamental right that is protected by the fourth amendment.

    The Patriot Act undermines the principles of our founding fathers.

    Their are more poor people in America because of the Bush administration policies according to the US census Bureau.

    The world is less secure from terrorism, as indicated from Amnesty International, because the Bush administration has falsely used 911 as a link to Iraq.

    The 911 committee has indicated no link between Sad am and Bin Laden.

    Last time I checked, a lie for a good cause or bad cause, is still a lie.
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I guess you either don't know or forgot that Kerry voted for the Patriot Act.

    Again, I ask (and no one to date has been able to tell me) what personal freedoms have we lost since the Patriot Act became law?

    I have all my civil liberties. What specific civil liberties have you lost, Laser100?

    Thanks in advance for your answer.
  3. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    During the 1992 elections Kerry trumpeted the mantra that one's military record should not matter during the presidential election (this was in reference to Clinton's draft dodging). Yet it's a totally different story when he is running for Pres.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2004
  4. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member


    Get out your's time once again to feel sorry for all of the supposed Americans "living in poverty." The Census Bureau reported yesterday that the number of Americans living in poverty has risen. As a matter of fact, they are saying that 35.8 million people are now living below the poverty line. On top of that, they're now saying 12.9 million children are living in poverty. Quick...we must elect Kerry! How can this be allowed to stand! Wait a minute! Forget The Kerry ... let's rush Hillary in there! She cares so much about the children! More money must be confiscated from those that earned it in order to "lift people out of poverty." Nonsense.

    Actually, the truth is, there is very little true poverty in America. If you get beyond the biased media's hysterical headlines, let's apply a little common sense. First of all, according to the government, you could have a net worth of over ten million dollars, own two houses, have three cars and because you only earned a few thousand dollars in income last year, you would be living in poverty. Does Terreeeeza Heinz-Kerry draw a salary? Maybe she's living in poverty too.

    It's a fact, folks. When the government measures poverty they're only concerned with paychecks, not with what you have already earned. The government doesn't look at your bank accounts, your balance sheets or that jewelry hanging around your neck. Only your paychecks.

    Let's say you are a remarkably successful stock broker. You decide to take a year off and travel the country in your $800,000 Blue Bird Wanderlodge motor home. Guess what? For that year, our government says you're "living in poverty."

    Why is it so? It started back during the LBJ "Great Society" years. Johnson wanted to create a method of measuring poverty that would provide a continued excuse for expanding the scope and nature of Johnson's war on poverty programs. That method of measuring poverty -- by only counting income -- is still alive today, and it is still being used by government hacks as a reason for ever more government and ever more government spending.

    The average American defined as "poor" by the federal government enjoys a higher standard of living than the average European; not the average poor European ... the average European. It's a scam, folks. A scam to enable more government. If a person has a roof over their head, food in their cupboard, a television set, a washer and dryer, a microwave, air conditioning and a car, that person is not poor. Sorry folks, but that ain't poverty. Just more leftist fantasies and imagined "emergencies" designed to create the need for more government.
  5. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    Do we really need to go there again? "Bush lied" has been the rallying cry for the left for some time now. Prove that he lied; just prove it. Now, keep in mind that to lie one has to know that that he is purposely distributing false information to meet an agenda. The left has continued with this bizarre "Bush lied" mantra despite overwhelming evidence by Russia, Great Britain, and other nations' intelligence which, like U.S. intelligence, believed that Iraq had WMD's.

  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    While there are obviously good arguments to be made for and against this or that section of the Patriot Act, it probably shouldn't become the object of paranoia.
  7. Laser100

    Laser100 New Member

    The Matrix = Big Brother

    The Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution states:

    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against
    unreasonable searches and seizers, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but
    upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the
    place to be searched and the person things to be seized.” Keep this in mind as I describe
    the Patriot Act to you.

    Many of you are aware of the Patriot Act but lack a complete understanding of the
    negative impacts it will have on American society. The Patriot Act is a danger to you and
    your children because it allows the government to investigate issues unrelated to

    The Patriot Act allows the FBI to obtain a collection of any “tangible things” regarding
    you and your family’s personal information. This includes voter registrations, business
    and financial fillings, vehicle registrations, liens, health, genetic, and phone records. Racial
    profiling is not out of the question either. Furthermore, they may use devices to bug your
    home, car, or office, and intercept your Internet communications. All oral conversations
    can be monitored.

    They may also follow you where ever you go and keep a detailed record of every minute
    of your life.

    Section 213 of the Patriot Act authorizes federal agents to conduct “sneak and peek”
    searches of a person’s home or office and they are conducted without notifying the person
    of the search until after the search has been completed. This part of the Act will not expire
    in 2005 as others parts of the Act will.

    If you are aware that they are performing these activity you will be un-able to do anything
    about it. The Act has no mechanism for repeal or dispute by the individual under

    Some people say, “So what, I have nothing to hide.” I say to them, “This effects more
    than just you, it will effect your children, and your children’s children, forever and ever.
    This is not a legacy that I wish to pass on to others in my family and to America.

    If the Act becomes permanent it will take away your freedom of privacy forever. I ask
    you this, “If someone is always monitoring you, are you ever really free? The Patriot Act
    undermines the Founding Father’s principle of freedom and everything that America
    stands for.

    The Act does not require evidence or suspicion of terrorism to investigate you. The FBI
    can go on “fishing” expeditions with no specific reason in mind. The government has the
    ability to collect information on every person in America through Seisint Inc. The Seisint
    supercomputer system is loosely referred to as the “Matrix.” The government super
    computers have the ability to collect information from across the globe and create a
    historical summary about you and your families records.

    However, the real issue of concern is not that they will have this information about you.
    The real concern is if the government will share this information with other agencies and
    firms. Currently, many states have laws against sharing information of this kind.
    However, the erosion of these systems is now becoming strained by special interests.

    During the 911 hearings, the Domestic Security Enhancement Act (DSEA), Patriot Act II,
    or Victory Act, was discussed as the next initiative to be passed. This Act will strip away
    the final state and local laws that were passed to counter the Patriot Act. It will also allow
    the government to secretly arrest and detain anyone suspected of terrorism. The loose
    definition of a terrorist suspect will allow nearly anyone to be arrested.

    The Terrorist Information Awareness (TIA) section, of the Victory Act, will allow the
    government to strip an American born native of their citizenship. It will also allow them
    to put the accused terrorist into a military prison. It creates 15 new death penalties for
    those accused of terrorism and could criminalizes an individual who has an association
    with an accused terrorist or organization. The Terrorist Information Awareness (TIA)
    was formally call “Total Information Awareness” (TIA). They changed the name to
    disguise the intent of the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency or DARPA. Who is
    incharge of the program.

    Another tool that TIA may use is public video footage to identify suspicious patterns. The
    cameras using these technology could be placed in malls or stores. The TIA system would,
    as indicated by the Washington Post, “Identify people at great distances by the irises of
    their eye, the grooves in their faces, or even their gait.”

    To a local South Bend family the first Patriot Act has already done damage. A local
    South Bend family was interrogated by the government under suspicions of terrorism.
    WNDU reported the story last year. A family member was quoted as saying, “She is now
    fearful in her own country. The Patriot Act gives them the right to invade peoples lives.”

    This election is not an ordinary election, we must take off our gloves to fight this threat in
    our homeland.

    We cannot stand by while we are robbed of our civil liberties.

    We cannot stand by and let a stranger from the government achieve Total Information
    Awareness about us.

    We cannot let the current administration take away the Fourth Amendment of the
    United States Constitution from the people of this land

    The terrorist have won the war if we lose our freedom of privacy.

    I leave you with this final message. Regardless of if the Patriot Act become permanent or
    temporary, I do not wish to have a president in office that is willing to even consider
    taking away my freedom of privacy forever
  8. Laser100

    Laser100 New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2004
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: The Matrix = Big Brother

    You still haven't answered my question. What specific civil liberties do you no longer have because of the Patriot Act?

    You still haven't answered my question. What specific civil liberties do you no longer have because of the Patriot Act? You still haven't answered my question. What specific civil liberties do you no longer have because of the Patriot Act?
  10. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

  11. Similarities to 1933 Enabling Act

    The Patriot Act is scary. Just look what Germany's 1933 Enabling Act did for German Citizens. We wouldn't need the Patriot Act if we could control the borders, but oh, no.....this country wants to give illegal aliens Social Security benefits and driver's licenses.
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest


    Get your free Kerry graphic to make your "Badge A Minit" button!

    Attached Files:

  13. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    I blame our cowards in Congress (Senate and House) , including our own Queen Coward Diane Feinstein, for the passage of the Patriot Act. While the Bush administration utilized poltical blackmail (look what they did to Max Cleland) to get a poorly written bill passed, it was up to them to first of all read it in its entirety (something that a great many Congress admit they did not), and to vote against it if they didn't want it. To do less is not doing your job.

    Do I beleive that Bush lied about the connection between 9/11 and Iraq? Yes - although merely not finding any WMD's doesn't prove this. I look at it this way, can Bush prove he didn't (and yes, it does work both ways). Can Bush prove that he exhausted all alternatives before the run to Iraq?

    I see a lot of links being posted in a vain attempt to prove Bush's point, but they lead to merely the opinions of others.
  14. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    Huh? What on earth is this supposed to mean?
  15. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    Simply put, it means that a great deal of what is posted is seemingly someone else's opinion (just because someone at CBS or FNN says it doesn't lead any more credibility).
  16. BLD

    BLD New Member

    The Patriot Act is an official part of the Democrat platform. For some reason people keep ignoring that fact.

    So are you against them too?

  17. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Hypocrisy! It doesn't work both ways!

    Well, well, well. You sure are a hypocrite!! You continue to rant about the Patriot Act and it's effects on civil liberties. Yet, you actually accuse President Bush of lying, and then, argue that the onus is on him to prove otherwise. That's not how it works! Here in America, the burden is on the accuser. You should start practicing what you preach, kiddo.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2004
  18. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    The Democratic Party does not support the existing Patriot Act. Its position is similar to mine, which is that the Patriot Act should be revised to address civil liberties concerns before it is renewed. From page 18 of the 2004 DNC platform (emphasis mine):

    "We will strengthen some provisions of the Patriot Act, like the restrictions on money laundering. And we will change the portions of the Patriot Act that threaten individual rights, such as the library provisions, while still allowing government to take all needed steps to fight terror. Our government should never round up innocent people only because of their religion or ethnicity, and we should never stifle free expression. We believe in an America where freedom is what we fight for – not what we give up."

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2004
  19. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    If that's the case, why did John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, and other Democratic stalwarts vote for the Patriot Act?
  20. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    The same reason why politicians reacting to the first red scare brought back the Sedition Act: Because they were influenced by an urgent political and social climate. The fact that the Patriot Act comes with an expiration date tells me that most of the folks voting for it knew their limitations.

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2004

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