President Trump Conviction

What to make of it? Already adding more divisiveness to our country. It gives the impression for some that he is being persecuted rather than prosecuted by Democratic party operatives for political gain. Are all of the attempts to prosecute being led by Democrats or are there some Republicans. The Democratic party has a definite history of using democratic prosecutors to go after Republican politicians and in at least a couple of cases those convictions were overturned on appeal after causing massive havoc.

Other people will see it as an indication that no one is about the law (which of course isn't true in America).

And others at how far are political system has spiraled.

I am reminded of President Gerald Ford who decided that even if it cost him his own reelection he would pardon President Nixon for the good of the nation because the optics and standing of the country weren't good if Nixon were prosecuted.

Only time will tell how it plays out.

 

I am not a Trump supporter and did not vote for him but am I getting this right?

- The Prosecutor in this case is a Democrat.
- The Judge is a Democrat (who donated to a stop Republicans campaign).
- The Judge issued a still not lifted gag order so Trump and his lawyer can't talk about his case even after conviction.

The beneficiaries of this are the Democratic Party (in terms of revenge and effecting the upcoming election).

Is this the US Justice system where a party can use its reach into our justice system to take out and silence political opponents? I am aware of a Democratic prosector elsewhere also going after various Republicans (and in at least two cases lost on appeal but he cost one his political career and thousands of dollars and the other stress and thousands of dollars). An editorial notes the prosecutor basically made a hobby of prosecuting Republicans.

Are all of the judges in upcoming cases against Trump Democrats? Are the prosecutors Democrats?

Not a good look. Our system seems broken.

 

The jury wasn’t all Democrats.

Trump has always sounded to me, as a former criminal defense lawyer, like a "client".

A piece of advice for Mr. Trump. You'd better have some evidence before you start calling your sentencing Judge "corrupt" in public.

 

Not only is the system NOT broken, it performed despite Trump’s best efforts to break it.

 

Politico which is ranked centrist or left bias depending on who assesses it says:

"Based solely on the demographic makeup of these jurors, they largely code as Democratic voters."

How is a jury of Democrat voters a jury of his peers?

Politico also noted that one juror was seated when Trump's team ran out of challenges. She said she didn't like Trump's persona. She ended up as a juror.

So:

- Democratic Party Judge who donated to a stop Republicans campaign.
- Democratic Party Prosecutor
- Largely Democratic Party Jury (or completely?)

Beneficiaries are the Democratic Party and they had the ability to use public funds and resources to impact the next election.

And a gag order on him so he and his attorneys can't talk about the case.

Okay. Murican justice or third world style?

 

Can you point to any piece of evidence to support what you are saying? Any error by the trial Judge? Anything at all? Can you point to any reason for thinking the jurors decided the case on politcal grounds? Have you ever BEEN a juror? Of course you can't. There may be errors. The convictions might indeed be set aside. But face it, Garp...you don't like the result so therefore it must be corrupt. That is the Trumpist dogma and it's bullshit.

Cheer up! There are three more trials in other Courts and other states. Maybe you will like those results better.

My great fear is that Trump will do the decent thing and terminate his candidacy to allow the GOP to nominate someone who might beat Biden. He won't, though. It's never about anybody else with Trump. It's always about him.

 

I'm wondering what the sentence will be. I don't think it will involve jail time, though it should. But Trump cannot possibly abide by any reasonable conditions of probation so he will end up in prison anyway. Thing is, he absolutely can run for President from a jail cell. That will be a great look for the GOP.

 

Can you point to an error in what I said?

Was the Judge not a Democrat who contributed to a stop Republicans campaign?

Was the Prosecutor not a Democrat.

Was Politico wrong that the jury appears to be largely Democrat and that a juror was seated who didn't like Trump's persona?

Was I wrong that the Democrats appear to be beneficiaries?

I will wait.

Don't assume my motivations. That was irritating and amateurish. I didn't even vote for the guy.

 

On the surface this looks like a Soviet or North Korean style judiciary process.

Remember the phrase "show me the man and I will show you the crime". One of Bill Clinton's lawyers in Whitewater noted after his own conviction on something unrelated that nearly any American can be convicted of something once the Feds go looking (State I suppose too). One of the major news networks did a story on that issue at the time of Bill Clinton's impeachment and noted how you get into trouble. If recall correctly at the time I stopped paying attention during the Russian collusion scandal there was no one actually convicted of colluding with Russia but there were people convicted of other things the Feds dug up while they were investigating. And that is how it works. I forget which US attorney said show me the man and I will show you the crime.

 

Not a US Attorney but Lavrentiy Beria. "Show me the man and I will find the crime."

"Lavrentiy Beria, the most ruthless and longest-serving secret police chief in Joseph Stalin’s reign of terror in Russia and Eastern Europe, bragged that he could prove criminal conduct on anyone, even the innocent. “Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime” was Beria’s infamous boast. He served as deputy premier from 1941 until Stalin’s death in 1953, supervising the expansion of the gulags and other secret detention facilities for political prisoners.

Read more at: https://www.oxfordeagle.com/2018/05/09/show-me-the-man-and-ill-show-you-the-crime/"

 

Immediately next in that Politico article,

"That’s no surprise. Manhattan voted in favor of President Joe Biden over Trump by 87 percent to 12 percent. It has one of the most liberal jury pools in the country." A Republican voter in Manhattan has a good chance of demographically coding as a Democratic voter!

When Trump chose to do business in Manhattan, he chose that his peers would largely demographically code as Democratic voters. (And that hasn't kept him from using the courts in famously many other matters.)

 

Can't we do better. Can't we do anything to ensure fairness? Based on the way the cards were politically stacked from Judge, to Prosecutor, to Jury, was the result ever in doubt? Is that how the system works in the United States in 2024?

 

Have you ever been through jury selection, Garp? Have you ever filled out a jury questionnaire?

 

As a someone who is not in a legal profession I wonder will apeals make it go to SCOTUS, and I think It will be interesting to see the protection Trump gets as a major political candidate and former president?
Again maybe I'm completely off here.
Just wondering.

 

Judge Merchan made a $35 donation to the Democratic group ActBlue that included $15 earmarked for Biden for President and $10 each to Progressive Turnout Project and Stop Republicans.

That doesn't sound significant to me?

If you look at the evidence fairly I think anyone being fair would find him guilty. It's basically the same crime that Michael Cohen already went to jail for. Cohen was sentenced to 3 years. Trump was the only beneficiary for what Cohen was convicted of doing.

 

Very few Republicans would prosecute Trump because the GOP has turned into a personality cult. Democrats have shown a greater willingness to penalize their own successfully pressuring multiple Democrats to leave Congress and Andrew Cuomo to resign. Republicans allowed a white supremacist to be in the House for years. In Texas, they chose not to remove our criminal attorney general. If Trump had been a Democrat, he would have been pushed out based on just the sexual abuse allegations.

The trial took place in Manhattan. His peers are the people who live around him. Manhattan just happens to be blue, and Trump used to be a Democrat at one point.

 

This is an excellent question. I have been on four juries. I highly suggest the experience to everyone. Well at least once. No need for 4 times. It is a grave responsibility. People take it very seriously, everyone tried to be very fair and tried to follow the law to the best of their ability. I think this is Nosborne's point. If one has been through it then one's respect for the process is significantly increased!

 

This was not a political process. It was a criminal justice process.

If you have evidence of political bias leading to actions, show it. If not, you cannot infer it merely from political differences. They're irrelevant.

This is like being mad because some felon got convicted while thinking Lite Beer tastes great, while others think it is less filling. As I said, irrelevant.

 

What white supremacist was in the White House for years (Dr. Woodrow Wilson)?

"If Trump had been a Democrat, he would have been pushed out based on just the sexual abuse allegations."

Not necessarily. Clinton was accused by multiple women including of sexual assault. The Democrats simply turned the political machine on these women to attempt to destroy them and Hillary Clinton even got in on the act. That is just part of History.

Democrats have also had corrupt politicians at the state and other levels and simply don't care. The voters will put them back in. It is just their history.

 

Same argument in the Soviet Union. Nothing to see here.

Asa Hutchinson pointed out on NPR that prosecutors have discretion and that he wouldn't have brought whatever particular case it was against Trump. It goes back to Beria's statement to show me the man and I will show you the crime. The reason so much money and resources were invested was because he was Donald Trump.