Phony Ph.D.'s

Folks, I am sure you will have some amusement reading the article on the identified site below. Way to go Dr. Bear.

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/gma/goodmorningamerica/gma010222hunter_diplomas.html

 

To all the people--defenders of unaccredited schools, mostly--who think it's wrong to "out" people with fake degrees, it appears to be fine with ABC News. ABC seemed to have no problem with naming names of otherwise private people. I'm sure they're lawyers vetted this, too.

 

Phony PhD's

Rich Douglas really needs reminding that there is a very big difference between degrees from a number of prominent but unaccredited colleges and degrees from blatant degree mills.
Rich also needs to read what John Bear has to say on the subject of unaccredited colleges before (again) going off at half-cock. But perhaps Rich plans to re-write the Bear tome and produce a new definition of degree mills?

 

Re: Phony PhD's

According to a survey completed by John Bear, the difference between unaccredited schools and degree mills--according to their acceptability to admissions officials--is much smaller than the difference between unaccredited schools and accredited schools.

The gulf isn't between unaccredited-yet-legitimate schools and degree mills. It is between GAAP and everthing else. Performing the statistical analyses on the data from that survey--and writing a talking paper on them--has made that clear. A careful reading of Bears' Guides' chapters on unaccredited schools would reveal much the same, especially if one has been reading them for, oh, say 23 years.

 

GAAP

The funny thing about GAAP, though, is that an institution that many of us regard as an outright degree mill (namely St. Regis University, endorsed by the MOE of Liberia) is GAAP compliant because of that MOE endorsement.

There's more to this than just MOE endorsement, GAAP, etc. In other words, you kind of "know it when you see it".

So now that begs the question - will GAAP be rewritten or revised so that institution's like St. Regis that get a government's MOE to endorse it and accredit it are excluded on other bases?

 

Re: GAAP

I think that is where discernment comes in. If you have less than prominent countries or small island nations (without its own university system) accrediting schools you need to look very carefully. There are some of these situations that will yield a foreign credential evaluation and mean possibly limited utility BUT caveat emptor. That does not mean universal acceptance or that the person will not be looked on with less credibility. If the situation seems strange to you that should be the first clue to be cautious.

I posted sometime ago a forum link for foreign medical students that talked about the trials and relatively small percentage that got internships/placements in US hospitals. It sounded like it could be done but it was an uphill battle (for US citizens). So you may have medical schools catering to Americans and located on small islands. They may have WHO recognition and local accreditation (equiv) but that does not guarentee an acceptable level of utility to you. It is a calculated risk that you weigh.

North

 

Re: GAAP

I agree very strongly with that.

Regarding foreign schools, in the obvious cases like the University of London there is no problem. The problems arise when we descend down to the level of weird Caribbean, Costa Rican or Mexican programs that technically might be "GAAP" but have far weaker academic reputations (if any at all) than the better state-approved schools.

I'm not even clear what "GAAP" actually is. Is it formal or well-defined enough to be "rewritten"?

I understand that John Bear coined the term, using it to refer to the rules of thumb most often used by university admissions officers when faced with foreign credits. In effect, they consult a set of standard references.

But "GAAP" has, as our theologians might say, hypostasized. It has been reified, subtly transformed from a rough and ready rule of thumb into a formal and definitive rule defining a concrete status. Degreeinfo actually goes so far as to treat it as a de-facto form (and norm) of international accreditation. It becomes something binding, something that we here, as well as universities and employers, are somehow obligated to accept.

Frankly, I wonder how religiously it is accepted, even by those university admissions officers that (perhaps unknowingly) spawned it. My guess is that exceptions are common and that a lot of judgement calls are made.

I find it incomprehensible that Berne would be accepted simply because it landed a listing in some book, but NTPS, Hsi Lai, IBS, Soka, SF Law, Expression Center, Ryokan etc. wouldn't be, despite their greater academic credibility and higher local profile out here. There are certainly many anecdotal reports of Bob Jones degrees being recognized, particularly by graduate programs at other fundie schools in the South.

What I've been doing is Googling schools. Running Google searches on various combinations of search terms. It's often interesting to vary the school name but leave the rest of the search terms the same, and then compare results. The results vary from literally thousands of hits to simply nothing at all. Sometimes the results are lots of rather flaky or alternative websites, lots of college-guide sites and on-line resumes. Other times you see things like conference presentations and visiting professorships. You see departmental webpages, research projects underway, publications, collaborations and awards.

This stuff speaks directly to how a school is perceived out there in the academic world, I think. Particularly in the school's specific field and discipline. It's going to color a school's acceptance, although it's hard to quantify that kind of thing. The beauty of it is that it is something that can be applied across the board, to RA, NA, state-approved and "GAAP" schools.

 

Right on! (Sorry, just having a 60's fit.) Bill has laid out the issue with great clarity.

I have found a Google search to be very illuminating in the case of a number of schools discussed here. Somebody used the term "footprint" to refer to serious traces on the internet. If they aren't there, watch out. If they are there, once you remove all adverts for a school and all non-evaluative references, what's left? The answer to that may well shed some light on an obscure school--including, possibly, the well-deserved character of that obscurity, or, possibly, the relegation to a kind of snobbery of quick dismissals of that school.

Is GAAP a mantra or a diagnostic tool?

 

Sadly Rich my copies of Bear's Guide only go back to 1985. The latest edition arrived only last week. I had ordered a copy through DegreeInfo in early January, but this has yet to arrive, so in me eagerness to read the latest edition I ordered a copy through Amazon UK. This arrived in nine days!
Dr Bear clearly differenciates between unaccredited schools and degree mills, although I'm sure he really believes that a number of unaccredited schools should be in the degree mill section. His section on 'Who can benefit from unaccredited degrees?' is a fine piece of writing, as is the remainder of this section, and, of course, as is the rest of 'the Guide'.
Dr Bear also mentions some of the institutions of higher learning which are not in any way accredited by Government or by 'the establishment'. In 'paradise' one of the best examples of a successful 'unaccredited' learned institution is THE NEW ZEALAND INSTITUTE OF MANAGEMENT. An organisation with a very high profile and large membership, and one that spends much of its time running DL courses, face to face courses and raising the status of management and managers. NZIM is a totally independent group which awards 'NZIM membership qualifications', and whose qualifications are held in high esteem. Of course, there are numerous similar organisations throughout the world, and to which GAAP means very little - even if they have heard of it.

 

Re: GAAP

GAAP is the generally accepted accreditation principles. When the scam artists first started using St. Nevis as a safe harbor it was more generally accepted, for example. I believe that it has become less accepted. I further believe that the same will be true of the Liberia scam as time goes on.

 

The "G" stands for "Generally." The concept generally describes the situation, but there are exceptions. BJU and some other, unaccredited schools find that their degrees enjoy wide acceptance. Other schools meet GAAP technically, but their credits and degrees are not normally accepted where those from accredited schools are required. Nothing is wrong with any of that.

That Berne technically meets GAAP doesn't lower the bar. It just reminds us, again, of what "G" means.

It is increasingly evident, however, that the IHU is not a credible source of information about what is and is not a legitmate university, since its publishers are required to list any school approved by a soveriegn nation. In some nations, such recognition is for sale. This makes me suspicious, initially, of degrees from schools operating with recognition from St. Kitts and Nevis, or Liberia, etc.

BTW, has John Bear not denied coining the term "GAAP"? I believe he's said he heard it used at an AACRAO function somewhere, liked it, and began using it as well.

 

A new phenomenon of schools locating 'accreditation from Malawil, Liberia, etc.' Folks have to use common sense. A Foreign degree from a large reputbable country such as AU,SA, GB, are not likely to raise eyebrows with a foreign credential evaluation. US degrees accredited by small islands or rather insignificant countries are likely to raise eyebrows even with a foreign credential evaluation.

Imagine.... Oh your degree is from the Imperial College of St. Faustas, PO Box 000000, Montana but accredited by the island of Bunga Wanga's Ministry of Education & Revolutionary Policy. Ahhh... I can see the doors opening now. It may well be a well endowed school that can afford PO Boxes in two different countries but c'mon.

I remember the episode of Frazier where the brothers have a problem between them solved in a few minutes by a Family Therapist next door. After the guy leaves tehy notice his diploma is from the West Indies and one of them says 'Oh that must be only his undergraduate degree'. They then notice his PhD is from there as well and begin laughing and decide he knows nothing (even though he obviously solved their problem). The perception was that it was not credible.

North

 

Are you suggesting that accreditation by Bunga Wanga's MoE is not reputable?

 

How big does the island have to be?

Is the Malagasy Republic in, and Iceland out?

What if it's part of an island--Papua New Guinea in, Ireland out?

How about two parts of two different islands: Northern Ireland plus Timor Leste?

Does New Zealand get extra points for having two big islands?

What if the island used to be sort of independent until Joey Smallwood goofed everything up and traded it to Canada for a bag of doughnuts, a John Wesley bobble-head doll, and several neckties formerly belonging to deceased Canadian Senators?

What if we wish the country were a small island (France, say)?

 

Actually this might be a business for the folks on St. Pierre & Michelon (??) to enter in. These are two very small islands off the coast of Canada that are French territories and do have residents on them. If I recall they at one point tried to claim a huge fishing zone for themselves that obviously took part of the Canadian waters. The French threatened to send destroyers over to take out Canadians if they interfered. Ohhh those peaceful French

St Pierre could get into accreditation. Then schools such as Berne could claim to be located off the US East Coast rather than the West Indies. Not a bad deal for Berne or St. Pierre. It could be like the Isle of White or Mann (??) where residents rent their addresses to foreign corps. Then they could quit threatening Canada

North

 

And as I have suggested on several posts over the past two years, Thurston Howell University has long been accredited by the MoE of Gilligan's Island. The MoE is directed by one "professor," although I can't recall his last name.

The island has no access to the Net, so all course work must be sent via canoe with natives from nearby islands. A slow process indeed, but a substantive program.

 

So then if all course work can be sent by canoe, does this include programs from Berne and St. Regis? At least on Gilligan's Island, they did have a professor............

 

Roy 'The Professor' Hinkley Jr., PH.D.

The rest of the cast, uh, er, staff:

Gilligan
Skipper Jonas Grumby
Thurston Howell III
Mrs. Eunice (Wentworth) 'Lovey' Howell
Ginger Grant
Mary Ann Summers

and....radio announcer Charles Maxwell!

BTW, distance education courses can be conducted over the native stick-banging-on-a-hollow-log system.