PHD in Accounting, Online?

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by mtaylor583604, Feb 17, 2016.

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  1. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Do tell about some, I might be interested.
     
  2. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    This is true, but in terms of the rules applied, getting pretty darned close, e.g., who cares if assets listed in order of liquidity or reverse order? (and the political interference is probably the biggest reason why we still accept LIFO here, even though it's kind of a bizarre way of valuing inventory) On the whole, though, there are CAs getting very nice paying jobs in U.S. academia due to the shortage, the colleague with the CA rather than CPA makes over $170K a year teaching a 3/3.
     
  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Yes, I completed one of those. An British accounting designation is required. I am not too sure if the American CPA would qualify but you can always try.

    I would recommend an MS in Accounting and Finance rather just a MS in Accounting and this opens the doors to teach finance. I have not been able to teach accounting because I don't have an American or Canadian CPA but get to teach finance courses often at local Universities.

    A PhD in Accounting is gold if it comes from an AACSB accredited school, you are looking for at least 150K as a starting salary but established professors make 300K plus a year.
    Most British schools are not AACSB accredited so the top up MS from a British school can mainly be used to be an adjunct but not so much to be full time faculty.
     
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    There are few but none are from AACSB accredited school. Also, not all of them are DL, some require seminars on campus. You can try Leeds Beckett University, HeriotWatt University, University of the West England, The University of Northampton and Birminghan University. However, most require a British designation.
     
  5. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I cannot speak for academia. And when I say "foreign" was a dirty word I refer exclusively to education. There was a time in corporate hiring, and you can sometimes see little glimmers of it, when foreign degrees were simply not accepted at many U.S. companies.

    A "foreign" degree meant that you couldn't get into a good U.S. school in the eyes of some hiring managers. Thus anyone with a degree from any place other than the U.S., Canada or the UK was viewed with the same suspicion as the U.S. Citizen not of Mexican origin who earns a degree from a Mexican medical school.

    If you graduated from a top school in Canada or the UK (McGill, Toronto, Oxford etc) then you might escape the "couldn't get into a real school" label. But anything shy of the very top tier landed you lower on the priority scale than someone with an equivalent U.S. degree.

    Some countries were just straight up untouchable for reasons ranging from political fear-mongering to pure xenophobia.

    One of my first recruiting contracts involved working with a very senior CIO who rejected two candidates with German degrees for programming jobs despite extensive experience. His reason? "This is for Normandy." In 2005/6?

    In any case, my point was only that foreign credentials overall are becoming much more attractive in the job market than they once were.
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Understood. I wonder if my lack of experience is ameliorated some by the fact that what I do is, technically, taxation (judging technical merits of submissions for a scientific research and experimental development tax credit claims)...

    Would you say that Colorado State (Global) will be better accepted than UofL International Programs? They are both non-AACSB extension arms of major university systems; UoL is perhaps better known globally. And yeah, I'd like to be a lecturer at an AACSB university, or a tenure-track at non-AACSB one.

    As to length of studies, I looked at the list of undergrad prerequisites for Auburn program. It's not drastically different than writing 9 Foundation papers in the ACCA program; in fact it seems to be more work. Colorado requires less, but still not nothing (15 hours of Accounting credit translates to 5 classes and $1250 if achieved by CSU's CBEs - which seem to be the cheapest method nowadays, or just about). Given that an ACCA paper is under 100 pounds, price still favours British route even on that level. One can even pick up a Bachelor's from Oxford Brookes along the way, for GBP250 and a paper.

    Bottom line is, I don't anticipate being able to complete either route any sooner than 2018, but ACCA/UL will be about half the price. I'll self-fund, so "only" 15k is not a chum change for me. I would prefer an American degree, but would need a more substantial reason to fork out the additional cash for it.
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I think Rich Douglas might want to comment on this. At some point, he was earning his PhD from a Mexican school and he was under a lot of criticism for this decision.
    We have seen schools like Azteca or Empresarial selling degrees to Americans for substandard effort, the bottom line is that an HR person is not going to buy the idea that you decided to get a degree from Azteca because it was a better decision than your local school. Most would think that you are getting it from Azteca because they are giving you credits for your 20 years experience as a car salesman and 10 years as a cashier at Seven eleven.

    However, degrees from low profile schools like Azteca have a potential market that is mainly for adjunct work. A PhD from Azteca would qualify me to teach at the UoP if I can get a WES equivalency report. Most adjunct positions at low profile schools do not care much about the reputation of the school for the PhD as most people teaching at these schools do not hold doctorates from top schools so Azteca or other similar school might do the job.

    So at the end, the foreign credential from a low reputation institution might be useful for some people but not so much for others. If I already hold a good job with my MBA from top University but would want to be called "Dr" and be an adjunct professor at my local school or online university but I don't want to spend a fortune and a great amount of effort for getting it, I might be interested in getting a PhD from Azteca for 5K and a dissertation that most likely will not require a tremendous amount of effort.
     
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Understood. I wonder if my lack of experience is ameliorated some by the fact that what I do is, technically, taxation (judging technical merits of submissions for a scientific research and experimental development tax credit claims)...

    Would you say that Colorado State (Global) will be better accepted than UofL International Programs? They are both non-AACSB extension arms of major university systems; UoL is perhaps better known globally. And yeah, I'd like to be a lecturer at an AACSB university, or a tenure-track at non-AACSB one.

    As to length of studies, I looked at the list of undergrad prerequisites for Auburn program. It's not drastically different than writing 9 Foundation papers in the ACCA program; in fact it seems to be more work. Colorado requires less, but still not nothing (15 hours of Accounting credit translates to 5 classes and $1250 if achieved by CSU's CBEs - which seem to be the cheapest method nowadays, or just about). Given that an ACCA paper is under 100 pounds, price still favours British route even on that level. One can even pick up a Bachelor's from Oxford Brookes along the way, for GBP250 and a paper.

    Bottom line is, I don't anticipate being able to complete either route any sooner than 2018, but ACCA/UL will be about half the price. I'll self-fund, so "only" 15k is not a chum change for me. I would prefer an American degree, but would need a more substantial reason to fork out the additional cash for it.

    For the record, based on my calculations, the whole scheme will cost about 6300 pounds, or 8200 USD; covering ACCA exam phase, OBU BSc, and UoL MSc. This is comparable to WGU in costs, and cheaper than both CSU-Global and Emporia.
     
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    DegreeInfo nerd out: I wonder what a US credential evaluator would do with Oxford Brookes BSc(Hon) in Applied Accounting, if one requests course-by-course evaluation? The degree consists of 9 ACCA exams plus a research project; it supposed to be a Hons. degree, or a 4-year degree. Presumably that's 120 semester credit hours. Does this mean each ACCA paper is 12 semester credits? Fascinating. This may be the most efficient way of getting credits by testing, evah. Beats CLEP by an Imperial mile.
     
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Valid points. I thought about this in similar terms. Standards vary tremendously around the world, even among legitimate schools. If I beat the bush enough, I bet I can get a PhD from Ukraine in "Accounting and Audit" around the same price; it could be from a state-run institution, and the dissertation quality would not be any worse than the country average (but not than THIS country average); plus it'll be in a language few people read here :).

    Heck, for less than a good Master's here, you can find a Russian company that will discreetly get you an accredited doctorate without the need to write (or even read) the thesis. Downside being, down the road, guys from Dissernet may stumble upon "your" work in the library and find that it's 89% plagiarised from some equally weak Russian work.
     
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Stanislav,
    If all you want is the MSc in Accounting, you might want to try AIA instead ACCA. ACCA exams are not easy and believe is easier and faster to get a MSc in the US than having to write ACCA exams. AIA is easier to get and you can also get a MSc with this one but AIA is not very recognized but it would work if all you want is the MSc.
    I am skeptical about the comment about getting a teaching position with a MSc with no experience, I have a MSc in Accounting but was not able to get even adjunct work because of lack of experience. I teach IT auditing that requires Audit background but not accounting.
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    ACCA exams would be evaluated as equivalent of US credit but not at 120 credits. I completed part exams with AIA and part with ACCA, I was given about 90 credits of undergraduate work in Accounting because these credentials by ECE. ECE did not consider ACCA exams as graduate level but undergraduate level.
    You could also take these credits and get a BS in Accounting at Excelsior but an undergraduate in Accounting is useless for teaching purposes but can help you to qualify to write the CPA exam. Excelsiors Accounting degree is recognized to write the CPA in the State of New York, the CPA with your PhD in CS would also do the trick if all you want is to teach accounting. I think that your IT background would be useful to teach IT Auditing and Fraud, pure accounting classes are normally given to practicing CPAs although some people here claim that they can be given to people like us that work in IT but want to teach accounting on the side for extra cash.
     
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    A PhD from a Russian school would be OK to teach at your average US school as long as you get the blessing from WES. If you are citizen of Russia and can do it distance and cheap through a Russian school, it is not a bad deal because at the end you will not lose anything but just the time with the dissertation. There are plenty of people teaching with Russian degrees in the US and Canada. However, the CPA would be enough in my opinion as you have already a PhD, you can always argue research in Accounting IS, IT Audit or Taxation of IT companies specialization to justify the PhD in CS. I got a job teaching IT auditing but my school wouldn't give any accounting class because I don't have a CPA.
     
  14. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    The biggest issue with earning a foreign degree from a non-English speaking country is that your interview is likely to take this route...

    Hiring Manager/HR: Oh, so I see you earned your PhD at a university in Mexico.

    Person: Sure did

    Hiring Manager/HR: That's great. So your Spanish is pretty good?

    Person: I don't speak a word.

    Everyone on this board is aware that there are foreign programs in English. But it defies the assumption that a lot of other people would make. If you are fluent in Spanish and/or of hispanic descent then the Mexican university thing might appear even more reasonable. You went there because you have some sort of connection to that place (even if it is just linguistic). But when a white guy who doesn't speak English or have any periods of time documented on his CV working/living overseas it raises some questions. Is he lying? Did he find a sketchy school to sell him a degree? Why would he pick a Mexican school and not even go to Mexico?

    There might not be anything sinister going on. But it's a bias a lot of people have. It's especially strong with doctors who were educated outside the U.S. If Dr. Patel has a medical degree from a university in India it is generally received more favorably than if Dr. O'Reilly has a medical degree from the same university. We assume that Dr. Patel is from near that university. Or that s/he has family ties there or cultural connections. We wonder why Dr. O'Reilly went to school in India if physical convenience wasn't a driving factor. What led Dr. O'Reilly to India? What sick past drove him to a medical education so far away? The truth could be that he went to India for work and decided to stay to become a doctor. Nothing nefarious at all. But it's a common American bias.

    Now, if you are fluent in Spanish, that interview is going to take a very different turn and the interviewee is going to be in a very strong position.
     
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Good points, to be quite honest, I would not put in my CV a PhD from Azteca or similar school unless it was for an adjunct position that requires a PhD. It could raise many red flags and won't add too much to your resume. If the PhD was from a known school like UNAM or ITESM (both ranked schools), you could justify it because prestige but most people would think that a PhD from an unknown obscure Latin school was purchased and not earned.

    One could have an adjunct resume and a professional resume, in the adjunct resume you can have your cheap PhD from India, Mexico, Sri Lanka, etc just to cover the PhD requirement and a professional resume that does not list the PhD.

    Most of the adjunct positions do not require formal interviews, you just send your transcript and WES reports and take a training course. If you pass the course, you are hired as an adjunct. Most schools would just go with your previous adjunct experience and won't care much about the PhD as long as you have the WES report to back it up. Many people adjunct with degrees from India, Africa, Sri Lanka, etc.
     
  16. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Depends on where you're trying to get in recognized, but sure, the UoL brand generally is better.

    I'm going blindly on this one, so can't say one way or the other, have never written a paper for ACCA certification. My understanding is it's studying for certification under IFRS standards, something like the CPA. Perhaps something like self-study in accounting? Not sure. Look, if you want to do the UG self-study cheaply, look at LSU's self-study program or UC-Berkeley's, those are really good values. Basically, you need foundations in accounting, managerial and financial, plus 6 to 8 upper division UG accounting courses to be qualified to sit for the CPA. It sounds like, based on what I've read, that the ACCA thing is a self-study version of picking up this same accounting knowledge, just from the slightly different IFRS perspective. You may be right in what you're thinking about feasibility, you may be wrong, but I just don't have enough info to know. I do know there are some masters programs in the US that enable you to finish UG and grad requirements in 3 pretty intense semesters, then you're good to sit for CPA, so if that same course of action is feasible with a UoL qualification, might work for you. But again, I've just read up on this a bit, not really sure myself.
     
  17. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    There is certainly nothing wrong with having different resumes for different things.

    However...

    If you are earning a PhD in your chosen field it should probably serve you at your day job as well as your adjunct aspirations. That's a lot of time and effort, even if not as rigorous as a typical RA doctorate, for something that is only going to serve getting adjunct work. This isn't a Penn Foster certificate that you intend to use to work as a Pharmacy Technician part-time. This is a PhD, presumably in a field that you are working in, that one is hoping will get them a job as an adjunct. A job which might well be paying roughly the same as the Pharmacy Technician job, by the way.

    If you are an accountant and have a PhD in Religion then, fine, I can understand leaving it off of your professional resume. But if you are an accountant with a PhD in Accounting and you feel it is best to leave it off of your resume then I'd say you need to rethink that PhD program.
     
  18. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    ACCA (the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants) scoop the hotly contested Professional Body of the Year award at the prestigious The Accountant & International Accounting Bulletin Awards in London.
    ACCA crowned
     
  19. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Actually, the PhD in Religion is not a bad idea. A MSc in Accounting and a PhD in religion would qualify you to teach accounting. Many accounting teachers have PhDs in non related subjects as many do a CPA and then become accounting teachers. AACSB is not against a PhD in Religion with graduate work in accounting.

    A PhD in Religion might be not so easy to get but a PhD in education is an acceptable option also and more feasible.

    My point is that many come to the forum with the idea to get a PhD to adjunct on the side, most online American schools cost around 60K ore more. I don't see much professional benefit for a person with a CPA and a MBA from Top school (e.g. Stanford) to do a PhD from an online school (e.g. Jones International, NCU, etc).
    A middle point could be to get a PhD or DBA from a school that will not affect your resume and won't cost a fortune. One could register with a credible school in South Africa and I think one could defend this option if the school has reasonable reputation.

    The Azteca, Nicaraguan, etc options seem to be reasonable for someone with the intention to do less work as these schools take into consideration previous work such as research publications, etc. These are also cheap options but I wouldn't feel comfortable to top my education with a PhD from these schools for a professional resume as most tend to look at the top education first and this might diminish the rest of your education. By the way, I am not sure if Azteca or Nicaragua would make the WES test as Azteca for example is not Mexican accredited for PhD programs. These might be cheap but not good for adjunct purposes.
     
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    ACCA was very close of landing a deal with IMA (CMA) US. This means that could probably get CMA (US) as an ACCA member. However, things did not work out at the end.

    An alternative to the ACCA route is CPA Australia that also has deals for Masters degree and is recognized world wide. At some point CPA Australia was recognized by US CPA but it is not the case anymore.

    ACCA and CPA Australia are affordable and can be done distance but I am not too sure about their value for someone looking to use them to teach in the US. Yes, there are some individuals that have managed to get faculty positions in the US with these credentials but one cannot assume that an American doing an ACCA would give him or her the qualifications to teach accounting in the US. Rules also change over time, when I was doing ACCA, this was recognized in Canada but now many CPA associations require ACCA members to demonstrate that they have lived overseas before getting their ACCA accepted mainly to prevent local people from taking the ACCA program as this is direct competition to local programs.
     

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