PHD in Accounting, Online?

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by mtaylor583604, Feb 17, 2016.

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  1. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    We don't have any such people around here at my university, everyone on the faculty here (average State U, AACSB) is capable of teaching intermediate accounting courses. Some teach governmental, some AIS, some international, some tax, but none of them did anything light and fluffy in their PhD programs, and if they did, they still have work experience and/or a CPA. I agree that a CPA is desirable and many universities make it a drop dead requirement, but I'll still stand on what I said, even if someone focused on accounting ethics or something fuzzy in a PhD program, so long as that PhD was from an AACSB university or overseas equivalent, so long as they are willing to teach principles, intermediate accounting, etc. and don't have something horribly wrong with them, some school will wave six figures at them and offer them a job. There are simply not enough accounting PhDs to fulfill the demand, universities are flat out desperate, this is why salaries are climbing towards (and for flagships and elites, above) $200K.

    Totally agreed. They'd salivate over him with that math and CS background if he just did one of the various online master's in accounting programs for people without an undergrad degree in accounting (and Stanislav, they definitely exist and can oft be completed in 18 months or so). With your background, bet you'd start at $150 - $200K.
     
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Thanks again!
    How important is the ranking and accreditation of the online Master's? As I am a long time participant on this forum, I'm tempted to try eg. Western Governors University program.
     
  3. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    I am not the biggest fan of WGU for a person like you. I've done some work for them in the past (course development for their accounting masters and economics programs). They are fine for their target market, but for someone with a PhD from a prominent university like you, I don't see it as a good fit. You said you don't have undergraduate work in accounting. If so, you could still go for one of the masters in accountancy programs that don't require undergrad work or that offer the necessary prereq courses online.

    The University of South Dakota's online Master of Professional Accounting is < $450/cr hr, and you could do the undergrad prereqs through LSU for around $200/cr hr. One could virtually start from scratch and get all the accounting education, ug and grad, needed for under $30K.

    You just have such a solid academic record, I'd want a recognizable state or private university on there to supplement what you have. Just my opinion (again, nothing against WGU for the right person, they are legit).
     
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I guess I knew the answer for this one, given that we're talking academia here. If I get to that point, I'll follow your advice.
    My wife took accounting classes (pretty much all they offered) at LSU back when they were <$90 per credit. They formed the bulk of credit for her second Bachelor's at Excelsior. When they introduced Accounting certificate, she already took all required classes and was able to just claim the certificate for $50. Her CPA-qualifying degree ran us around $7K, which was virtually all we could, just barely, afford on my graduate assistantship. Now, I think I'll try to find more affordable source of prereq credit.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Stanislav,
    The best would be to get your MS from an AACSB or AMBA accredited school. If money is a problem, you can do CIMA or ACCA (UK qualifications) or CPA (Australia) that later can be converted into a Masters program. I was at one point member of CPA Australia but I lost interest about them when they lost their agreement with CPA US but you can upgrade their qualification with a MS degree from many Australian and UK Universities. The total investment would be about 10K, many CPA Australia exams can be done with pearson prometric as a proctored online exams and are multiple choice questions.

    CIMA UK has a mutual certification with AICPA that is called CGMA that is starting to become recognized. You can upgrade CIMA to a MS degree with many schools that work with them.

    The American CPA qualification can be tricky because you need CPA experience, CIMA accepts managerial experience so it is easier to get if you work in a managerial position.
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Great points.
    So far, I'm looking into some clever way to get undergrad prerequisites down and get into an AACSB MS program. I'll look into ACCA and CIMA; let it be a backup plan - I do not want to become even more foreign to US job market.
    Question: will a program from the likes of Emporia State work for academia purposes, or should I strive for a state flagship? Compared to Emporia, the excellent program at University of South Dakota FTFaculty recommended sure has a lot of business prerequisites. Doing all these prerequisites will put me at stone's throw to a BSBA at sat Thomas Edison; while cool and potentially useful (they are also CPA requirements in most states), this is a delay I'd like to avoid.
    I also wonder what can count as relevant experience. I assess submissions for a certain tax credit program, in a quasi-audit role, working alongside CRA audit personnel. I really wonder if this might count in some state.
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Stanislov,

    I don't know the schools you mention so perhaps someone else might help here.
    Another alternative to the CPA is to get the CMA instead. CMA is more managerial and similar to an MBA and it does not require CPA experience and not even an accounting degree. Trying to get undergrad credits to get admission into a MS in Accounting is a long path, you can aim for a MS in Managerial Accounting (WAlden has one but it is not AACSB accredited) that does not require previous accounting background. A MS in Managerial Accounting is almost like an MBA. You could also get more IT oriented accounting related certifications such as CISA or CFE and aim to teach more IT oriented courses. The CMA is mainly because most schools would want you to teach at least some basic accounting courses so you need to show a general background in Accounting but you can show specialization in Accounting IT to sell your PhD in CS. A friend of mine has a DBA in Management and CMA and got an accounting teaching position with these qualification.

    I agree that the british MS would be harder to sell in the US market, although I have a former class mate that got her CPA and PhD from Australian schools and she got a position in the US as an accounting teacher with these qualifications.
     
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I observe that the usual accounting prerequisites are 6-8 courses (Financial, Managerial, Cost, Intermediate I and II, Advanced, Taxation, Audit), and most of them can be done by exam or other non-traditional means nowadays. Tough but doable. I would sure like to find an AACSB program for non-accountants, though. CMA certification is a good idea, thanks.
    I like this idea more and more. Even if the ultimate goal is out of reach, one is left with accounting credentials that are valuable on their own right.
     
  9. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I would also recommend a degree in Accounting and Finance rather than just accounting. The reason for this is because it also opens the doors to teach finance.
    At the beginning like you, I wanted to teach accounting but most of my adjunct work now comes from teaching finance and not accounting. The reason is because I have like you degrees in mathematics and engineering. Most of the courses that I am giving to teach are related to monte carlo analysis, risk management, quantitative finance so I look more appealing with math degrees for this than a person with an MBA in Finance and a BS in History.
    I am also getting a lot of IT auditing that has little to do with accounting but students are mainly accounting majors.

    Devry has a MS in Accounting and Financial Management that looks good but it is not AACSB accredited, I am sure there are some schools that AACSB accredited out there that offer this option.
     
  10. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Emporia State isn't exactly a flagship, but it's a very legitimate school from my home state (home town to NASCAR's Clint Bowyer, FWIW--probably not much). Had a friend from high school who got his master's there in library science and ended up becoming the head science librarian at the U of Michigan (Ann Arbor) for a time. So ESU wasn't exactly a knock out for a quasi academic position at a top 15 university.
     
  11. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    This is likely to become more true in the future, the acceptance of Euro, Asian, etc. accounting degrees in the U.S. market, because the GAAP and IFRS standards are getting closer all the time. The differences are almost trivial at this point. One of my colleagues, who makes over $170K, BTW, is not a CPA but a Chartered Accountant, the Brit equivalent.
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I will look into it.

    I almost forgot: I actually do have a CISA certification. I never held a job where it would be required but kept paying my dues and CPE reporting anyway. Perhaps it can come in handy after all.
     
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Great. I guess I have one very strong lead there.
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Sorry for ressurecting this thread again.

    What do you guys think about this path: Professional Accountancy (MSc and PGCert) | University of London International Programmes

    As I said, I would prefer to do a US-based route; however, I will self-fund this, and the price difference is substantial. Both ACCA folks and UofL External folks are doing this for a long time, so the quality is likely good. UCL connection is even better. I'm tempted, very tempted.
     
  15. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    This tread is very relevant to some of us. ACCA has many of these great deals. ACCA just entered into a strategic relationship with CPA Australia and New Zealand, just in case you want to work in those two countries.
    The ACCA and CA ANZ alliance | ACCA Global
     
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yes, ACCA is great for many, many people. My only hesitation is that I'd prefer teaching in the US to working in Australia or New Zealand. Even though from what I heard, both countries are great places to live.
     
  17. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    One of my colleagues in the accounting dept (AACSB school) is a CA, not CPA. They're getting desperate enough given the shortage of qualified people willing to teach for a living rather than go into public accounting that they're making concessions, so the ACCA master's and qualification might work. Still, without practice experience, it'd be very difficult to break in at anything other than the instructor level, but if one had that, it could work. Remember, this qualification is for people who've spent years studying towards the Brit equivalent of a CPA, which takes longer, typically, than a CPA, and one could obtain a Masters of Accounting online much quicker in the U.S. than they could obtain the Masters through UoL. Colorado State (Global) offers a Masters of Accounting for only about $15K and Auburn for not much more than that, which might be better bang for buck if one wants to be say, a lecturer in accounting making $80K a year at an AACSB university.
     
  18. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Interestingly, we have an accounting manager whose only accounting credential was a Canadian CA (prior to the CPA shift). No Masters. No U.S. based CPA.

    The CPA is an interesting credential in that an accountant doesn't really need it unless they intend to represent people or business entities before the IRS. But finding the CPA requirement for positions that have no legal obligation for the license is incredibly common.

    For our corporate tax people it makes sense. For our cost accountants it really doesn't. There the CPA is just being used as a sort of validation that they are of a certain caliber.

    Our Canadian colleague had no legal or regulatory reason to have a CPA. So his CA was accepted as "equivalent" for the job. And it's worked out for him for quite a good many years.

    I can't speak to academia, as FTFaculty has done, but I can say that global companies are generally pretty accepting of foreign credentials. We have two foreign attorneys, not admitted to any U.S. bar, working at some of our U.S. locations. They mainly serve as legal liaisons between U.S. lawyers and foreign lawyers working for our company overseas.

    And we've had rotating HR professionals from countries with vastly different labor laws. One, from Sweden, decided to stay in the U.S. after his 4 year initial mandate. Consider how different labor laws look between the U.S. and Sweden and remember that all of his academic qualifications are all Swedish. He eventually bounced to another company and, only after that move did he even bother earning his SPHR.

    "Foreign" has become far less of a dirty word in the workplace since we moved to be "globalized."
     
  19. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Foreign is definitely not a dirty word in academia, so far as I know. GAAP and IFRS are getting so close (and likely to get closer if the SEC has its way) that CA, CPA, not much difference. The only issue is the length of time to obtain that certification and get the UoL Masters. If you're already a CPA, they give you significant credit towards the ACCA certification, but if you're already a CPA, you could probably get a masters in accounting through any number of online programs in the U.S. quicker, and while some are fairly expensive (UNC, Syracuse, Rutgers) some are pretty affordable (Auburn, Georgia Southern, Colorado State).
     
  20. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    The US CPA is the gold star in accounting designation. However, with with IFRS, foreign trained designations from commonwealth countries and EU are the gold stars because they have been at IAS/IFRS a longer time. Also IFRS is principles based and US GAAP is rule-based thus a different mind-set. The SEC is now accepting financial statements in IFRS so there is no need for conversation to US GAAP. Also US GAAP has a fair bit of political interference this you get compromise regulations that do not make accounting sense.
    In the UK there are many inexpensive top-up masters for accounting - 2 courses plus a research paper.
     

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