Oxbridge MA degrees

Peter

I enjoy a debate as much as the next chap but I am not dignifying your comments with any further remarks.

Kane

 

Hmmm

DENNIS WROTE: "I think that MAs are granted for undergraduate work only by reason of tradition created when Oxford and Cambridge were the only universities in England. I do, however, suspect that a 3 year Oxbridge BA may be equivalent to a 4 year BA or better from most schools on this side of the Atlantic."

RESPONSE: If it is demonstrated that 4 years of coursework was completed in 3 years I would concede it is an honours degree, But still not an MA.

I am sure students from Yale or Harvard would disagree with your last sentence *S*

 

Re: Oxford again!

Two points:

(1) At Manchester, Birmingham, etc. the BD is (was) an "advanced Bachelor's degree", i.e. a second bachelor's degree which can be taken in a shorter time than a first bachelor's degree because one has already taken the first degree.

(2) The degree still exists at Oxford. It is not listed in the programme of courses because there is no teaching provided. and therefore there are no students, and one cannot apply for entry to a course leading to it. One does not even have a supervisor fo the thesis. There is an entirely separate process for entry to the examination.

Malcolm S Jenner

 

Re: Hmmm

When I was an undergraduate at Oxford there were students taking the BA who had previous degrees from Harvard. They were given "advanced standing", i.e. they were allowed to do the Oxford BA in two years (instead of three). One that I knew had a place at Harvard to do a PhD straight after his Oxford BA.

Malcolm S Jenner

 

If I had an Oxford or Cambridge MA, I would miss no opportunity to rub everybody's nose in it.

In my youth with my education on cruise control, I picked up 2 undergraduate degrees from the Canadian equivalent of a state university.

I am very proud of these because a large number of my classmates did not graduate.

Oxford and Cambridge, by virtue of being first, are going to continue to issue degrees in a manner that they see fit, and not apologize to anyone.

In case nobody noticed, tradition has a certain importance in England. Postage stamps from the United Kingdom don't say which country they are from. Why? Because they were the first and owe no explanations to anyone.

 

Re: Re: Hmmm

That's pretty much standard procedure at most universities for second bachelors degrees, isn't it?

I assume that the second Oxford bachelors degree was in a different subject than the original one from Harvard. Here in the US, a person doing a second bachelors degree usually has to complete a shorter program than the first bachelors required. How much shorter depends on the amount of overlap between the programs in terms of supporting coursework etc. If I have a physics BS and decide to do a second mathematics BS as well, I won't have to repeat the the mathematics (differential equations etc.) that I did in my physics program.

As for your second point, some prestige universities in the US prefer to admit students to their doctoral programs directly after they earn a bachelors. Admitting students after earning a masters is considered a transfer into the program, and these are sometimes frowned upon and only allowed under special circumstances.

 

Hey Dennis

But would you present an Oxford or Cambridge MA to an employer as a "taught" academic qualification?

 

I suppose so.

Just as those of us outside Oxford and Cambridge will evaluate those degrees as we see fit. That's our right too, and we owe no apology to anyone.

Speaking for myself, if I were in charge of hiring and received an application from an Oxford BA, I'd be very impressed. Personally, I consider Oxford to be one of the best universities on the planet.

If I received an application from an Oxford MA, *AND* if he or she volunteered the nature of an Oxford MA, I would be equally as impressed. Perhaps I would be even more impressed at the display of honesty.

*BUT* if an Oxford graduate tried to mislead me with the Oxford MA, as happened in the New Zealand case, then my instinct would be to reject the application.

Not for reasons of education, but for reasons of *integrity*. If the applicant was willing to try to mislead our organization from the very beginning, what would keep him or her from cooking the books and pulling an "Enron" on us down the road?

You can debate whether it is the university or the graduate that owes the explanation, but clearly *somebody* owes it in those cases when prospective employers might be misled.

 

Re: Re: Re: Hmmm

The one I knew personally majored in History at Harvard and then took History Honours at Oxford. As I understand it Harvard effectively rated his Oxford BA as equivalent to the Harvard MA.

In my own bachelor's degree subject (Mathematics) this would certainly have been true. The text books we used in the first year were mainly from US aimed at American Seniors and Graduates. Our second year texts were mainly US Graduate level texts.

In my current teaching subject (Software Engineering) we use texbooks for our second year students that are aimed at US Seniors and Graduates. The second year module that I teach on is similar in content and level to a US Senior level course.

Malcolm S Jenner

 

kane

I would not present an Oxford MA as a taught academic qualification but then again I do not present my existing degrees as taught academic qualifications.

I think since graduation I have provided transcripts twice, once to a professional association and once to a graduate program. They did with them whatever they do with them.

The the rest of the world just has to believe (or disbelieve???) that I have an education.