Online Medical Schools

Discussion in 'Nursing and medical-related degrees' started by Maxwell_Smart, Mar 14, 2019.

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  1. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Over the years, I've watched as more nursing and medical education has gone online. I've known about Oceania University of Medicine for some time, and of course Eastern Virginia Medical School offers some non-MD programs entirely online (Doctor of Health Science and some others) but somehow I hadn't heard about IUHS (International University of the Health Sciences) until recently.

    Apparently, IUHS is an entirely online Medical school that, according to them, has graduates licensed and working in 28 states. The way I was told it works, is the first two years are done entirely online (the basic sciences), and then the next two years are all clinical/rotations in residency.

    Sounds cool until you start thinking about issues like, some states outright refusing to license an MD who has had any significant portion of their training done online (I believe Indiana is one of those states). Then you think about well-respected hospitals hanging up on students trying to get a residency when they hear how the first two years were learned.

    It's already hard enough for U.S. based offline MD students to get residencies right off, imagine trying to get one through this kind of setup? Hell, imagine spending 80 grand only to get shutout everywhere and never be able to practice? Seems like a big risk of both time and money.

    What do you think about it?
     
  2. Garp

    Garp Member

    It offers an option for some people who live in the US and could not get into regular medical school and cannot leave their jobs. I believe Oceania has significant attrition rates (it is medical school after all).

    My impression is that it is expensive, most successful students are already practicing in a medical related field and have connections, and there are the difficulties most foreign grads face added to by an online format.

    Due to expense, it is not something you want to go into half heartedly.

    A guy posted on the Student Doctor Network how his wife went to Oceania and became an MD in the US. It was expensive (med school itself and many many apps and trip to get clincals and residency), took longer than expected to study and required a tremendous amount of persistence to get a residency. Also, probably looking at a less competitive specialty.
     
  3. Garp

    Garp Member

  4. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

  5. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

  6. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

  7. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Osteopathy started out that way in the U.S., but they fought to get the same recognition as physicians trained in allopathic medicine. Now, DO and MD programs are practically the same here.
     
    Maxwell_Smart likes this.
  8. Garp

    Garp Member

    Numss is not school of osteopathic medicine. It is an unaccredited school of manual osteopathy that offers a DO degree online (along with a number of other degrees).

    One of the guys associated with it is this guy. Dr. Daniel Nuzum makes for interesting reading. Has videos on Youtube. Not sure he has any accredited (recognized) degrees.
    https://www.drnuzum.com/about-dr-nuzum/
     
  9. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    That's understood. I'm just stating that that is where the roots of osteopathy lay. The current DO programs we have diverged from the roots of osteopathy, but we wouldn't have DO programs in the first place if it weren't for the existence of osteopathy (based on manual manipulation).
     
    Maxwell_Smart likes this.
  10. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    What I've learned through examining some of the law language in each state is, even if a state allows you to take up rotations at a hospital in their state (some states leave it up entirely to the hospitals) that state still won't necessarily grant you a license to practice thereafter. I don't remember which states plainly say that you can do your rotations there you just can't get a license there, but I recall there being a few like that. Granted, it had nothing to do with a school being Caribbean, it was just the fact that the basic sciences were learned online which is silly considering that in order to even get to residency you have to pass the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2, and if you pass those you've demonstrated that you're qualified just like a student who learned through a B&M.

    I have read about one Doctor making it to residency from the IUHS program, and that was after having done her clinicals in multiple states: Dr. Shuba Balan. New York was actually one of those states which surprised me considering how stringent New York is even on things like earning an LMT. Dr. Balan is now a resident at Morehouse if I recall correctly. So from that we know at least Georgia is one state that will grant a license to Doctor's who learned through IUHS' method.

    One of the things I've been hearing is that the entire Caribbean Medical accreditation system is about to change as will the laws of many states that are gradually going with California's legal position on them. By 2023, most of these schools would be invalidated by this change. Maybe students already enrolled would be grandfathered, but if not there will be a firestorm.
     
  11. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    This is interesting:

    https://teachmemedicine.org

    Seems like it's been in existence for a while. I don't see any place on the site where a person can enroll, but poking around Google I found an admission page and some other things that don't show up on the site links area.
     
  12. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    DOs and MDs just defeated a bill in a state that would allow physician assistants to practice with less supervision if they earned a doctorate in medical science. I wish I could remember the state, and I can't find the article right now. As discussed in other threads, there are two or three doctoral programs designed to give physician assistants further training just in case states decide to give them more independence.

    What do you all think? Should physician assistants have the same independence as nurse practitioners? I don't see why not. Especially with the year-long clinicals required for these doctoral programs, physician assistants will have more hands-on training.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  13. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I've known some doctors that I thought were idiots. Or a-holes. Or both. There are plenty of times when an APRN or a PA are all that's needed. I suppose it depends partly on what "less supervision" means.
     
  14. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I believe nurse practitioners can practice independently in most states. In some states, they have limited prescriptive authority. In my state, independent nurse practitioners who want to prescribe medication must have a supervision agreement with a physician. The physician can be in an entirely different location; they're just required to review the NP's prescriptions. NP's complain about this because physicians charge a lot for this service and there aren't many who want to do it because NP's are their competition. Currently, Texas has a bill that would give nurse practitioners more autonomy if passed.

    Physician assistants must work under a physician. They can't have their own clinic or work for someone who doesn't have a supervising physician. NPs tend to have more work experience than physician assistants just because they have to start out as nurses with undergraduate degrees. The exception is the direct-entry DNP. Physician assistants get a lot of clinical experience in their master's programs, and they would get another year of clinical experience in a doctor of medical sciences program. Physician assistants often argue that they receive more hands-on training, and it's all in medicine rather than nursing.
     
  15. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    Looks like it was Tennessee. https://www.aafp.org/news/government-medicine/20180326dmsscope.html

    Funny, people that care enough about others to join the medical profession attempting to restrict access to care under the guise of safety for the population. I am open to see what happens; it is likely to drastically reduce costs for some things.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
    sanantone likes this.
  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    When psychologists were trying to block a bill in Texas that would allow licensed psychological associates to practice independently, one of their arguments was that the market would be flooded with masters-level psychologists and insurance companies would start paying less. The psychologists don't care that there's a shortage of mental health professionals, and physicians don't care that there's a shortage of primary care practitioners. They only care about protecting their pay. As long as there is a shortage of healthcare practitioners, they can charge high rates.
     
  17. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I'm sure there is truth on both sides of that. Personally, I question just how qualified to work independently most NP's are and I worry about the way some use the "Doctor" of the DNP title when working independently in a way that's meant to be deceptive. Many place PA's above NP's in terms of training partly for the fact that a good amount of them are taught in Medical Schools, and yet NP's broke through. The Nursing field has very strong lobbyists.

    I agree with others that cite money being an issue. It usually is. If not, then one would have to question just how confident the medical establishment is in their own system of checks and balances. It's not as if just anyone can walk in and pass the USMLE's and make it to residency which is why so many fail to ever get that far. This is why I see no problem with the first 2 years being online like IUHS does, because when it comes down to it you either know enough to pass the USMLE tests or you don't, the delivery method isn't the biggest factor, and knowing that many at ground-based Medical schools just watch videos and videos of lectures without going to class (quite a few Doctors have posted stories of having passed all the way through with very little actual physical attendance), I see no reason why this can't become a real option in the United States.
     
  18. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I believe it was Stanford that started offering lectures online because most of the medical students weren't showing up to didactic classes.

    This reminds me of Texas' CPA requirements. If they believe that online students are less likely to pass the exam, then so what? If you pass, then you're prepared; if you fail, then you aren't prepared. People should be allowed to fail. Whether you block people from taking the exam or they fail, they can still become accountants, auditors, and tax specialists without the CPA license.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  19. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Yep, and lo and behold: their system hasn't crumbled. They've still turned out highly competent student-doctors/physicians. I'm sure if this were mentioned at the Student Doctor Forum the torches would come out as those nutjobs firmly believe everything should be done just they way they see it (cold and traditional, butt-in-seat for 4+ years) and anything different, regardless of evidence to the positive, has to be dismissed. Funny part is, most of them went to bottom schools and never would've been able to get into a place like Stanford, but they have all the answers, lol...
     
  20. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

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