online MA to traditional PsyD

Discussion in 'Nursing and medical-related degrees' started by thepsyguy, Mar 7, 2009.

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  1. thepsyguy

    thepsyguy New Member

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    I'm planning on continuing my education online through Capella U. to eventually earn my master's in Clinical Psychology. I would like to earn my PsyD eventually but I can not earn it online (apparently no online school is APA accredited) and I am afraid that a traditional program may not let me transfer my MA to their program (that I would have to start in year 1 or 2 vs. year 3) IF they accepted me at all. Is this concern founded? Would taking a few years off, after earning my MA, and working in the field make me a better prospect for a traditional school?
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

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    You are waaaay out in front of yourself. Not even a BA in your pocket and you're worried about where to earn your PhD. First you should know that you don't necessarily need an APA degree to practice psychology. Check your state licensure laws. Second, Fielding has a PhD program that is APA approved. You'd better be sharp though because admissions standards have got to be tough. There are alternatives. Search through our threads, it's all in there.
     
  3. japhy4529

    japhy4529 House Bassist

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    How do you know that he doesn't have a BA or BS?
     
  4. mbaonline

    mbaonline New Member

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    My suggestions:

    Contact a few schools where you might want to get the PsyD and ask them how admittance is granted; what GPA, classes, etc are required; and how they evaluate Masters' level work vis-a-vis doctoral standing. You could also ask at Capella if they have a roster of folks who got the masters' and then were admitted to a PsyD program.

    You can also read up on grad admissions to find out what schools look for in prospective students.

    Here's a good book: Getting What You Came For
    http://www.amazon.com/Getting-What-You-Came-Students/product-reviews/0374524777
     
  5. thepsyguy

    thepsyguy New Member

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    hey kizmet

    First, I already have my BA and several years experience under my belt. Second, I have already entered a PsyD program and left because clowns and bigots ran the school. Third, I stated I wanted a PsyD degree. If you do not know the difference between a PsyD and a PhD, or at least how to read a post, then I believe you do not have any valuable information for me. Thanks for nothing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2009
  6. thepsyguy

    thepsyguy New Member

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    hey mbaonline,

    I've talked to some schools already and they keep giving me the Public Relations run around, "We'll have to check this or that out when/if you apply." The most official answer I have is that I CAN enter a doctoral program but that some of my classes may/will not transfer over. What I am really asking is how do traditional schools (clinical psy in particular) view a transfer from an online program? Will I have a difficult time, are there mitigating factors, etc.?

    As for asking Capella about a PsyD degree - they have an online degree, but it is not APA accredited. I'll try to talk to them but I bet they will just try to funnel me into their online PsyD program. Thanks for the suggestions.
     
  7. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

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    What about Argosy University? They are not 100% online but they do offer an APA accreditied PsyD for select cities. I think it is a hybrid program but it may be worth looking into. Here is a link for review - http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/clinpsyal.html
     
  8. BlackBird

    BlackBird New Member

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    As shared on these forums many times a Psy.D. typically starts right after an undergraduate four year degree. The institution gives you automatically a Masters in psychology after one full-time year of study and then you go on in the program towards the Psy.D. Same with many clinical psych programs that give a Ph.D.

    As for online clinical psych doctorates... there is right now only one and it is at Fielding. I would not get a Masters and then apply to a Psy.D. or Ph.D. for licensure in Psychology. I would apply right after a bachelors degree. If you have not graduated with a four year degree then by the time you do there might be more online schools that might be APA accredited like Fielding. Capella has been working on it for some years already. Others like Union and Saybrook are newer to that game of applying for that status.
     
  9. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

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    Why don't you take it down a notch hot-shot. People are here to help you find some answers.
     
  10. thepsyguy

    thepsyguy New Member

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    Thanks for more input. Argosy does have PsyD and MA programs at a few different locations - but unfortunately moving is not a viable option right now (not a cop out). I took a look at fielding, but they only have a PhD program - which would not mesh with my dislike for research. I'm sorry if that sounded "overly choosy" but I have done research in the past, with others and my own, and I disliked it. I appreciate everyone trying to help find me an online PsyD program but according to APA there is no accredited ones currently. Getting back to my original question: "Would entering a PsyD program (it would HAVE to be traditional) after earning an online MA be difficult/frowned upon/dicey, etc...?" One person has weighed in on the question. I was hoping more people would offer opinions or anecdotes about the transition from online MA to traditional PsyD (or whatever)...
     
  11. dark_dan

    dark_dan New Member

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    I just visited argosy yesterday and spoke with a guy for about 90 minutes.

    It won't hurt, but whether or not it will help is another story. GPA is important, letters of recommendation are important (especially from PsyD or PhD holders).

    Also, expect the majority of your credits to not transfer. Even most of argosy's MA doesn't transfer into their PsyD program!

    He really encouraged me to stop attending Peru State College for my BS in Psychology and of course switch to Argosy for the rest of my undergraduate, but I think that was more of a sales pitch.

    From what I took away from it, if at all possible go directly into a PsyD program. Only get an MA first if you can't get into the PsyD. Otherwise you waste a lot of time (credits that don't count) and money. So MA + PsyD = 7 to 8 (depending if you're getting licensed at the MA level) years, PsyD only = 5 years.
     
  12. Griffin

    Griffin Crazy About Psychology

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    Red flags, IMO. If a school doesn't accept most of their own graduate credits, then something is very fishy. Most schools won't accept all of their own credits though (MA/MS thesis for example won't transfer to the graduate level).

    I am in the same boat as you, or at least a similar boat. My advice is to apply (for PhD/PsyD) to brick and mortar schools with a bachelor's, because most of your MA credits probably won't transfer if you change schools from MA to Doc. If nothing else, you can apply at a brick and mortar school that accepts it's own credits, get into the MA and then do direct transfer to their PsyD program (which you would ask the school about before applying of course). Ultimately I decided to go for a PhD program that has a strong clinical basis, but I am applying to a couple of very awesome B&M schools that have PsyDs.

    A big thing to keep an eye on is the APA match rate, ie how many students from School X are able to secure an APA internship. Their APA accreditation means nada if you can't get into a doctoral internship (which you generally need to graduate, practice etc). Do some searching and you can find the 2004 match rates pretty easily. Argosy has 80% at their school in Hawaii due to direct agreements with mental health agencies; elsewhere it's in the 40%-50% range (that's bad). Walden was in the teens (which surprised me). And Rutgers' PsyD program had 93%, which was the best match rate of them all. That means that 7% had to wait until the next year or longer to match. This is super important because worst-case scenario, it means that you have to change schools and add another 1-5 years to your graduate degree. That would suck hard to be done and then have to re-do a lot of your degree.

    Also, everyone who want to go on to grad studies in psychology NEEDS to get started while working on their bachelor's. That is per advice from a MA-level therapist that I consulted with. For many programs, you have to make sure that you've taken the pre-reqs or your application will wind up in the round file without being considered. :( And APA accreditation opens up many, many jobs that aren't there before --and it makes it more likely that you will get a job. Not having an APA degree can also restrict you to being an MA-level provider. Whether "APA-accredited" actually means anything is up for debate, but it's perceived value is through the roof regardless.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2009
  13. dark_dan

    dark_dan New Member

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    From what I understand, the MA is geared towards getting someone licensed.

    While the masters in passing in Argosy's PsyD program won't get you licensed.

    I believe he said about 12 credits transfer. He also said they're looking into reworking it so more transfers in.
     
  14. Joe Blessed

    Joe Blessed New Member

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    A possible alternative

    It sounds that your plan to pursue your master’s degree through Capella is already set and I want to be respectful of your choice; which by the way, I believe is an excellent one. On the other hand, if having an APA accredited Psy.D. is your ultimate goal, an option could be to pursue the PGSP’s (Pacific Graduate School of Psychology/www.pgsp.edu) online master’s degree and then transition into their traditional Psy.D. According to their website, their online master’s degree counts as the first year of their Psy.D. or Ph.D. program.
    You need to consider the advantages and disadvantages, though. From my view, the advantages include that all of your master’s level credits could transfer into your doctoral program; you can pursue your master’s degree without relocating; and PGSP has a great reputation, at least locally. The disadvantages include the fact that the master’s degree does not include clinical practice and, thus, may not qualify you to start treating clients in your state; the price tag is very high; although the Psy.D. is in consortium with Stanford (a probable door opener) and has applied for APA’s accreditation, it is not APA accredited yet (their Ph.D. is); you will have to relocate to the San Francisco Bay Area, if you don’t live here already, which implies a huge increase in cost; PGSP is an independent professional school, which is a perceived disadvantage when trying to find a match for pursuing an APA accredited internship; the school’s national reputation may not be as high as its local/regional reputation; and, finally, graduates and potential future students complain about the high cost of pursuing their degree through PGSP and some administrative disorganization (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=57).

    In terms of the clinical quality of PGSP, I have had five Ph.D. graduates as coworkers and as a rule, they appear to be very well trained, competent and relatively satisfied with their experience at PGSP (they only complain about the cost and the independent professional school part).

    I hope this information is helpful to you.

    Joe
     
  15. Joe Blessed

    Joe Blessed New Member

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    Continuation...

    After my previous post, I was reminded that during my search for doctoral programs in psychology/counseling, I found an interesting option at Alliant International University (AIU)/California School of Professional Psychology (CSPP). This is a four-year Psy.D. program that is in the process of seeking APA accreditation too. It is probable that if you pursue this option, by the time you graduate from their Psy.D., it will be programmatically/professionally accredited.

    Based on what you have shared so far and what they explain in their website, through this option, it is possible that you could complete your Psy.D. in a few steps:
    1. You could get any clinical master’s degree, online or traditional, and work towards receiving a state license or certification (LCSW, LMFT, LPC, Licensed School Psychologist, etc.). A clinical license is “preferred but not required;” only 790 hours of documented supervised clinical experience are required. This way, they could count your master’s degree and your supervised clinical hours as the 30 semester units of the first year and practicum.
    2. You can complete your second year (30 more semester units) of theoretical courses online with four face-to-face visits to the Sacramento/Fresno campus.
    3. You would have to relocate to the Sacramento/Fresno area for one year (if you don’t live there already) to complete the last 30 semester units of clinical courses and dissertation.
    4. Finally, you will be required to complete an internship year at an APA- CAPIC- or APPIC-approved site.

    From my perspective, some of the advantages of this option include:
    •The opportunity to virtually complete two years of your Psy.D. online, allowing you to continue living where you live and continue working (assuming that you like where you live and are currently working).
    •The opportunity to develop/increase your local network of professionals (if you are planning to practice where you currently live) who could give you strong letters of recommendation and refer patients to you in the future.
    •The opportunity to start doing clinical work earlier, work as an independent licensed clinician sooner and sharpen your clinical/business skills in the real world without having to wait until you have finished the 4-5 years of a Psy.D.
    •The opportunity to explore in more depth the clinical/research areas that interest you the most, in order to orient towards them your doctoral-level readings/papers, your dissertation topic and your selection of clinical training and internship sites.
    •The need to relocate for one clinical year and for the internship year only, instead of relocating for the 4-5 years of the program.
    •The probability that the program will get APA accreditation by the time you enroll or finish (given that you have not completed your master’s degree yet).
    •The fact that you can choose a clinical master’s program of your choice, having more control over the kind of training you get, aligning it with your personal interests.
    •The opportunity to graduate from two separate institutions, with their professional networks, and to get enriched from a more heterogeneous experience (different professors/clinical supervisors, peers, organizational cultures, clinical populations, practicum/training sites, etc.).
    •The opportunity to finish your master’s, practice for two or three years and mature more clinically and professionally before committing yourself to 3-5 years of doctoral studies.
    •The strong reputation that CSPP has (at least in California).

    The disadvantages I perceive include:
    •The fact that the program does not have APA accreditation yet and there are no guarantees that it will ever have it.
    •The possibility that completing your training from two separate institutions could have the effect of losing homogeneity/consistency in your overall training experience.
    •The fact that apparently, a two-year master’s degree and 790 hours of supervised clinical experience will count only for a maximum of 30 semester units (please verify with AIU) toward the Psy.D.
    •Less opportunity to build strong ties with a cohort of peers for 4-5 years of studying together.

    I hope that this information is helpful for you and our readers.

    Joe Blessed
     
  16. Joe Blessed

    Joe Blessed New Member

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    psyguy,

    You may do well in reviewing Pacific Graduate School of Psychology's online master's, which is regarded as the first year of their traditional Ph.D. and their new Psy.D. in consortium with Stanford University. On the other hand, the advanced standing option with Alliant International University/California School of Psychology – Fresno/Sacramento campus may serve well your future plans too.

    Best regards,
     
  17. Bluize61

    Bluize61 New Member

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    You have to understand the nature and difference of graduate education Vs an undergraduate degree. Graduate level courses are not designed to transfer. As dark_dan said, a stand alone MA/MS is designed to get someone licesned as a practitioner. A PsyD is geared more towards practice Vs philosophy, but there is much more depth and exploration than in a masters program. Most programs will accept some master's level courses but no program exists which takes an entire MA/MS and gives full credit towards the PsyD or PhD. There is too much variability between institutions and programs for them to trust what the student's actual competencies are. Accreditation is extremely important in some ways and not in others. I know people with PhDs and PsyDs who are not licensed as a psychologist because their programs were not accredited. They did meet the licensure requirements for a Masters Level practitioner so that is the license they hold. They still get paid based on their license, not on their education. Make sure you understand the difference there too.

    Does transfer and matriculation get political, sure. Is it expensive to earn a degree, yes. Do you want to waste your money, no. Can an online degree provide you with an equivalent education as a butt in seat program, debatable.

    If you are going to be a pactitioner, just go for a masters and be done with it. There is little return on investment beyond the MA level to justify completing a PhD or PsyD. You want to get the most value for your money if you decide to continue on and not every program can be made online and meet rigor and professional skills. Most online programs require some attendance to workshops or internships, etc. You will have to do some traveling and spend some money.

    Dreams + work/sacrifice/commitment = reality

    Dreams + wanting it to be convenient/cheap/comprehensive = a dream
     
  18. steplittle

    steplittle New Member

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    Reply

    I just completed my Maters in Professional Counseling and seeking a Psy.D online program as well. I began my search under the APA Accreditation Colleges that help with my research. This web site is very detailed and allows you to view the schools and their accreditation status such as probation and so on.
    Its touch, when I used Google search various universities were displayed offering a Psy.D program, many of these school do not understand the difference between Psy.D and PHD. I recently completed registration for Liberty University, thinking that I would compliment my Master in Professional Counseling with a degree in Marriage and Family counseling, until I could find Psy.D, program, (allowing another level of specialization to my Master. After sending the school my official transcripts, I was told that they needed my Bachelor transcripts which they would use for admission. This of course made no sense, why would you develop a course of study without looking at both transcripts. Mind you during my search Liberty University continued to show up offering a course of study for Psy.D. Anyway, I will continue my search. Listed below is the web site.
    Choosing a Program
     
  19. BlackBird

    BlackBird New Member

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    Regent U. has Psy.D.

    If you are considering Liberty but discovered that it does not have a Psy.D. then check a similar school but with a Psy.D. program like Regent U.:

    School of Psychology & Counseling, Regent University - Doctoral Program in Clinical Psychology (Psy.D.)

     

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