Online Education to become Attorney

Yes. The list of states seems very, very small. Georgia appeared to work at first but GA Bar requires licensure in the foreign jurisdiction where the first law degree was obtained.

As time permits I will read through the rules/regs for other states which allow an LLM to cure an LLB.

 

It's great that the individual you mention could qualify for the CA bar with an external LLB "cured" by a U.S. LLM, but the same could be accomplished with just a JD from one of the lower-cost correspondence CA law schools for considerably less money. I'm not saying it's a better option necessarily, but one that would work just as well if the primary goal is to qualify to take the CA bar.

 

FJD, You are completely right. A JD alone from a Cal Bar accredited school would work but perhaps it not being accredited (at least even Nationally) is a factor at play. The UK LLBs (U of London and Northumbria) are definitely RA equivalent. The poster, cusc2011, said the LLB cost $5,200 USD (converted) and LLM would could cost "15K and change". Perhaps they just really wanted an LLB and LLM. The NACES JD equivalency as noted by cusc2011 is very interesting and curious being that the LLB is an undergraduate degree.

LLB (Graduate Entry)
Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University

Of course this approach rankles many as does completing a PhD from a foreign institution as a US Citizen living in the US. I'm impressed by cusc2011's replies. It's good to see the approach has been well researched and that they are completely comfortable with it. No sense in being wishy-washy or regretting it.

 

FJD,

I did a really quick search and could not find any cal-bar approved schools with tuition anywhere close to the LLB rate.

I think the LLB/LLM route may be the most affordable, no baby-bar required, allows one to sit for the bar, and garners accredited degrees.

 

Northwestern California University School of Law is about 2800/yr. x 4 yrs, so about $11K for a JD that qualifies for the CA bar. I love alternative approaches to the soul-crushing costs of ABA-approved law schools these days. If I had to do it all over right now, I would probably choose something like NWCU because of the cost and delivery method, and that a CA license would work for me (licensure in any state meets my personal requirements).

Tuition & Finances | Northwestern California University School of Law

 

Yes, it is pretty clear that DL LLM would not cut it any more. However, NY states that a first qualifying degree in common law would qualify one to sit for the bar. London and Northtumbria LLB are both first qualifying degrees. Any indication this won't work?
NB: I'm in Canada, and the only way to "cure" a DL law degree NCA now mandates here is "at least" 2 years of classroom study (ie, 2 LLM degrees at a Canadian law school). Plus there's articling or LPC internship requirement. All told, if I earned an external LLB, there's no viable way for me to the bar for the moment. Nevertheless, I'm still thinking about doing the degree, mostly for the knowledge. But it's nice to know there are paths to practice, somewhere.

 

As noted elsewhere in this thread, New York also states that degrees earned by distance learning, internet, correspondence or self-study are ineligible.

That said, that particular requirement is contained in the sections about standard bar qualification. There is no mention of distance study in the foreign legal education requirements.

In fact, the emphasis seems to be more focused on whether the degree qualifies the holder to practice law in the home jurisdiction:

So, my first thought is that, take all of us out of the equation for a second. Imagine you are a solicitor or barrister in England. So you've been called to the bar. You've been practicing as an attorney for a few years. Now, let's also say that you earned your LLB from the University of London via distance learning while working on your dad's dairy farm somewhere in the UK.

Completely possible and reasonable, right?

New York has no means of distinguishing a DL LLB from a non-DL LLB awarded by the University of London. An LLB from UoL is an LLB from UoL. Both are bar qualifying. One isn't really a lesser version.

The prohibition against distance learning appears to be specifically aimed at U.S. legal education. New York allows graduates from certain unaccredited (non-ABA) law schools to qualify for the bar. They drew the line at distance study. So, a JD from the Massachusetts School of Law could allow you to sit for the NY Bar if certain conditions are met. But a JD from Taft is a no-go.

It's fairly easy to determine which U.S. law schools allow distance learning. As such, it's fairly easy for NY to simply write off all of them. Overseas? Not so much.

But, maybe the requirements are separate because the foreign LLB evaluation and the bar admission guidelines are separate processes. Maybe that hypothetical UoL grad would be questioned about whether his LLB was DL and would be denied the opportunity to take the bar. But I haven't seen anything that shows that would be the case.

That said, we also haven't really discussed how a UK LLB might be received in say, Canada. Canada appears to require you to work under the supervision of a licensed attorney before you can be admitted to the bar. So they probably have less inclination to be as thorough as NY (where the bar exam is the only hurdle to practicing law). If you are keen to live in Canada (or already live there) then this looks like a somewhat clearer path to bar admission. And if you then applied to New York, while your education would be evaluated on the basis of a foreign credential, you would have a Canadian law license to bolster your application.

 

I wondered about that very distinction too Neuhaus. When I find some time I will call the NY Bar (perhaps in Sept).

 

Well, I do in fact live in Canada, so I did look it up. Foreign degrees here need to go through evaluation by the National Committee on Accreditation (NCA), a standing committee of the Law Societies of Canada. NCA grants so called "Certificate of Qualification" that you need to go into articling or the Law Practice Program. If NCA finds deficiencies, it mandates examinations or additional courses at a Canadian law school.
NCA long held that distance degrees are inherently deficient, and asked for 8 semester-length classes to compensate. Recently, they changed to an even tougher stance and require 2 years of classroom study (eg. 2 1-year LLM degrees). This is still more doable than a full JD, since part-time law study is extremely limited in Canada and there are no night schools (and LLMs, in contrast, are available as night, weekend and executive courses). But it is still too expensive and long to be practical for a working adult.

NY Bar, though, if doable, could be an excellent resume and ego booster.

 

At a certain point you also need to weigh goals against practical, if not innovative, solutions.

I love a good life hack. And I smile every time I read about someone reading the law in CA and then using it to pirouette into the practice of law into a state other than CA.

But you know what? I have friends from the Navy who, upon separation, went back to their home states and will likely never leave. A good many of them were from CA. So, for those people, they don't need to hack their way into practicing law in NY, or NJ or making their way to Texas bar by way of the Pacific Northwest. Admitted to CA? Done. Go make a career. Congrats on your creativity. May it serve you well in your new career.

I say this for a few reasons. Not the least of which being that most of the people who want to life hack their way to a law license don't seem to actually want to practice law. Bar admission (heck, just the eligibility to sit for the exam) is an accomplishment. But it is an accomplishment that takes a lot of time, effort and money. If you really, really, really, really wanted to be a lawyer you'd probably just apply to the nearest law schools and attend one.

Heck, I pass a law school on my way to work every day. If I didn't have to quit my job to do it I would at least consider attending (I've been accepted there in the past so I'm assuming, for the sake of argument here, I could swing an acceptance in the future).

If 1-2 years of classroom instruction were suitable for you, then I would really wonder why you wouldn't just give this program a try. Three years, two JDs and the ability to be admitted to the bar of any U.S. State and the bar of Ontario.

Because, in the end, you'd likely spend more than 3 years working on the LLB and curing your LLB through the 1-2 years of classroom study. And, even when that's finished, you'll still have to jump through the NYS hoops.

 

Fair points all.

Umm, because I'm married with kids and a decent full-time career that does not require a law degree? Because I already spent almost 12 years in full time study?

Taking myself as an example, my primary motivation if I enrolled would be to learn law, useful for someone in a lawful society. I recently came upon a few life situations where a bit of law expertise would come in handy. This goal would be fully satisfied by an external LLB. Plus, I'm an education nerd (as evidenced by my long-term membership on this forum), and would love a nice GAAP degree to add to the three I already have. Thoughts of a possible Bar qualification are mostly just a bit of fantasy to help get motivated. OTOH, maybe in 3 years I will feel a burning desire or have a compelling need to get that darned law license, while still holding onto my rather pleasant current job. On the other hand, not getting to the Bar means I still have the degree, and washing out before getting the degree means I just wasted a relatively manageable sum on a hobby and read some books in the process (which I generally enjoy).

So for me, the only remaining choice is between UoL External and Northtumbria. Any opinion?

 

On the "Law School Discussion" Website the individual who went with Northumbria stated that it has better support mechanisms with video tutorials. Another person said they stopped UofL after one year due to feeling "alone". You should browse those threads. Here is one: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University

 

Isn't that sound better with "University of London" vs "Northumbria University?"

Client: Mr.XYZ, Where did you earn your law degree?
Attorney: University of London
Client: Oh, okay...(It has to be in London, England)...

OR

Client: Mr. XYZ, Where did you earn your law degree?
Attorney: Northumbria University
Client: Where is that?
Attorney: Gateshead, United Kingdom
Client: I have no idea where that is...I'll give you a call if I decide to take a legal action.
...then you will never heard back from that prospective client.

 

Yes, this. I would love to have a London degree (my wife has a Dip. Grad.).

OTOH, London exams are notoriously hard, and NU online format reportedly offers more support. I wonder if this gives an edge to Northumbria in terms of the chance to actually graduate. Also, NU degree is LLB(Hon), ostensibly 4-year (but the content seems the same).

Anyone has up-to-date info on Northumbria University's fees?

 

Would that be you? oke::ugh1:

sorry, couldn't resist

 

Please understand that when I posted my earlier reply that I wasn't telling you that you should just "shut up and go to law school." My intention was to broaden some of the advice given so that it may apply to people reading this thread who may not be in an identical situation to you.

That's fair. On the other hand, if you pursue a non-bar qualifying online Master of Law you could potentially still have a very respectable credential that confirms you have a goodly amount of legal knowledge rattling around in your noggin.

That doesn't satisfy the "what if I want the law license" quandary but it is a worthwhile consideration. At the same time, I totally see why an LLB would be tempting. If that's your choice, go for it.

University of South Africa?

 

I'm certain that some people scrutinize their lawyers to that sort of level. And I'm sure the type of law you practice matters a great deal. Perhaps if your clients are corporations it is less of an issue.

And I can't imagine it's any worse than finding a New York lawyer who was admitted to the bar without having graduated from law school at all.

Client: Where did you go to law school?
Attorney: NYU
Client: Oh, cool. Did you graduate?
Attorney: ....not as such...but I completed the first year and took the bar after reading the law under another lawyer! Hey, where're you going?

But let's be real for a second. A lawyer who is admitted to the bar under some weird exception is still a lawyer. And I'll admit that, on the few occasions when I engaged the services of an attorney, "where did you go to law school" was never a question that I asked (largely because it's kind of a silly question to ask when hiring a lawyer).