Odd rule-Wash State Bar

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by nosborne48, Dec 11, 2023.

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  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Or at least I've never seen this before. Might be common now, though.

    Assuming you meet the education and character and fitness requirements, there are three ways to qualify for a law license. 1) Pass the Bar Exam; 2) Transfer your recent Uniform Bar Exam passing score from another jurisdiction; 3) Be admitted by motion based on passing the Bar in one or another reciprocal jurisdiction and showing three years of legal practice experience in the last five years.

    This is pretty standard stuff. The strange rule is that if the applicant is eligible for admission by score transfer or by motion based on reciprocity, that applicant is FORBIDDEN to take the Bar Exam! In the past, taking the exam was always an option but apparently not anymore.
     
    MaceWindu likes this.
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's interesting. Is there any reason that one might want to take the Bar if not required to do so?
     
  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Maybe. The problem is there are grey areas concerning who is eligible. I see no reason why I can't use my own situation though I have no intention of becoming a Washington lawyer.

    In my case. I might or might not have the necessary three years of recent experience. I'm a retired Magistrate. You don't have to be a lawyer to be a New Mexico Magistrate except in my county, where you do, unless you were in office when that requirement became law. So was I or was I not practicing law in the last eight years? Maybe yes. Probably yes. But maybe no.

    In the interests of time I might prefer not to litigate the issue even before the Bar Examiners. It might end up quicker and cheaper just to take the exam.

    Or perhaps I want to get admitted in additional UBE states and taking the UBE in Washington is most convenient.

    Now these are unusual circumstances but they aren't impossible as you can see. The point is, anyway, that I must apply for admission by motion and be refused first before I can take the Bar Exam.
     
  4. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Arizona is another UBE jurisdiction. A cursory reading of their rules shows that AZ has no similar prohibition.
     
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    @nosborne48 I found something that may interest you, since part of NM is in "Navajoland." I figured the Navajo Nation had its own court system, and now I've learned it's the most extensive Native American court system in the US. You probably know everything that's here in this one-page history, but I'll post a link anyway, in case you or others are interested. https://courts.navajo-nsn.gov/history.htm#:~

    BTW - I recently completed a course in Diné bizaad (i.e. "People's language," - Navajo). Fascinating - especially
    to hear it pronounced by older Navajo women. Sounds very beautiful - and very ancient, coming from them, which it's not, really. I think it was about 1350-1500 CE when the language completed its spinoff from the Athabaskan parent tree. The pronunciation of middle-age and younger people seems to be tinged with American English.

    I completed the course through Cudoo and I would not recommend them. They are low-cost but very rudimentary. You get word lists, no grammar principles and there are very few sentences throughout the whole thing. And in one course there was a test or two containing errors - e.g. you know the answer, enter "a" and you get told "Incorrect. The answer is "a." Programming from Franz Kafka!

    I took three courses - ordered at the same time, total $39. Mexican Cultural Awareness, Navajo, and Nigerian Pidgin. I can learn much more from YouTube (and my Nigerian friend) about Nigerian Pidgin. YouTube is also great for Navajo and Mexican culture.
    @Rachel83az - you warned me Cudoo courses weren't very good - I should have listened. But $39 isn't a great loss, and I haven't lost interest and I have other ways so... it'll work out. But thanks!

    And the certs aren't bad-looking at all, even though they're meaningless. That company kind of puts the "cert before the course."
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2023
    Suss likes this.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    It's interesting to see how the Diné (Navajo) got words for things they'd never seen before. Examples:

    Man'dig'iya. ( cf. Spanish - mantequilla - butter)
    Ge'so (cf. Spanish - queso - cheese)

    They should tell people these things in the course. And now, back to our regular programming...
     
  7. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I am familiar with the Navajo tribal court system as well as with a dozen or so other tribal courts. Most of the Four Corners and Northern Arizona is "Indian Country".

    Interesting note. Smaller tribes often recruit their judges from outside the tribe. I did my annual Judges' Training last summer with a white lawyer who is the Tribal Court Judge for a small Pueblo in Northern New Mexico.

    But not always. A classmate of mine ended up as Chief Judge for his own Pueblo, one of the larger communities, after twenty years in state government service.

    The Navajo Court system is roughly equivalent to a smaller State Court which makes sense given the population of the reservation is about 250,000. There are two trial court types, the standard sort and a traditional court, and a Supreme Court which publishes its opinions. The tribal court has expansive family and civil jurisdiction in addition to the usual jurisdiction over misdemeanor level offenses.
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, deeply unfortunately, the tribal courts have no jurisdiction over felony crimes. If neither the defendant nor any victim are "Indian" as defined by the ever present BIA, the case gets filed in state court for the relevant county. If the defendant or victim is an "Indian" the case goes to the federal District Court. The overall ineffectiveness of the federal justice system is legendary.
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I'm told that fifty years ago, the Navajo law license was printed on actual sheepskin. No longer, alas!
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    For a couple of years back in the '80s, I think, before the UBE or reciprocity, the New Mexico Bar Exam included an Indian Law question. I regret that they dropped the requirement but none of the big Bar Reviews covered Indian Law.
     
    Jonathan Whatley likes this.
  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    One last oddity...the tribal court has misdemeanor jurisdiction over ALL BIA identified Indians, not just members of that particular tribe. So if an Oglala Lakota gets arrested for assault in Window Rock, she heads for tribal court. I would be summoned before the Justice of the Peace in (ironically) Apache County, Arizona. Neither of us is Navajo.
     
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Mandatory trigger warning: I use the term "Indian" because that's the word used by the federal, state, and tribal governments. It is a term of art that cannot easily be replaced by any more politically correct term.
     
    Johann and Jonathan Whatley like this.
  13. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Well-Known Member

    Funny you bring this up because I was talking to some friends about this a few months ago and we were looking at that page. One is Navajo and considering a law degree. The other has her MLS in indigenous peoples studies from a law school in Oklahoma and also wants to go for a JD. Anyhow, we were discussing whether someone might be able to graduate from a CalBar school and practice law with the Navajo Nation. The friend who is Navajo owns a multi-million company, but I think is ready to do something else. Likely though, not the type to go sit in a classroom and also (even though he has plenty of money) is not so the type to be inclined to pay a large amount for an ABA degree. Hard to say for sure if he'll do either one but he knows our other female friend and I are both planning to go for a JD and we have a few friends who already have their JDs or are getting them now.
     
    Johann likes this.
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Wow. You have a lot of interesting friends! I like your style! I've got some - a Nigerian-Canadian friend and a couple-three, all Mohawk First Nation, originally from around the Six Nations (Iroquois) Reserve, which is nearby. With friends like we have, you can learn lots of good stuff, right? :)
     
    SweetSecret likes this.
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah - should have mentioned my e-buddy in Germany. Great guy. Er hält mich bei Verstand. (He keeps me sane.) :)
     
    SweetSecret likes this.
  16. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The Navajo Nation licenses lawyers who are already admitted in New Mexico, Arizona, or Utah, pass their (English language) Bar Exam, and are moved in by a current member of the Navajo Bar. I don't know how they license non lawyer advocates.
     
    SweetSecret likes this.
  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The Navajo Bar rules have changed a little bit. Non enrolled applicants can be members of any State Bar by examination but must work or reside in one of the Four Corners States.
     
    SweetSecret likes this.
  18. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Well-Known Member

    Yes, to say the least! I have thought on more than one occasion that if you were to ever interested in making a business out of custom costume fashions designs for women I have a number of friends I could probably send your way! They would probably doubly appreciate your interest in good music. If you ever get a website up or Etsy-type store let me know... I would be happy to send you some business.

    It does sound like you also have a diverse group of friends! I think that helps make life interesting especially with expanding mindset. I have a number of friends in Canada, some of which I met from living in a border state and others are people I met from being in the same industry at one point.
     
    Johann likes this.

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