Obama's redistribution of wealth

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Nov 1, 2008.

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  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    That was not my point. Sorry that I was unclear. William Ayers did horrible things. I wasn't trying to make excuses for him and neither has Obama. Ayers is currently a college professor and apparently very active in local politics especially the local politics involving education. It is silly, in my opinion, to say that everyone that has ever been associated with him is some evil terrorist or even to say that they pal around with terrorists. We don't even know if/when Obama was aware of Bill Ayers past.

    I think it would be similar. The Democratic base might scream about it and then the moderates and Republican base would say he did bad things like break into Democratic headquarters at the Watergate but McCain has denounced that past. :)

    My attempted point was unclear, perhaps opaque, sorry. I definitely agree that the primary problem faced by McCain was the financial meltdown. The point I was trying to make was that I believe that a contributing factor to the Republican loss was that much of the political rhetoric that was being pushed, e.g., the media is out to get the Republicans and even more outlandish things like Clinton is a Communist spy or Obama is a terrorist, moslem, etc, was actually believed and was not addressing the primary issue you mentioned, the economy. When trying to win the general election one must address the moderates and the middle. Focusing one's message at one's base during the general election campaign, like the McCain campaign did, is a recipe for failure. I know that you criticized Obama for doing this but that is the way presidential elections have worked for as long as I can remember and probably even before our time. Trying in vain to associate Obama to horrible terrible things when the only people that are going to believe it is one's base, simply distracts from what the campaign should have been doing, IMHO. That is sending the message that McCain is a great American hero and here's his economic policies that make him different from George W. Bush. Note that McCain should have been vigorously addressing economic issues rather than being distracted by stuff that was only going to energize the base. I think that is what they refer to sometimes as red meat. A campaign cannot live on red meat alone. You said that the economic downturn is what killed McCain's chances. I'm saying that McCain not addressing the economic issues is what killed McCain's chances. Instead he spent his time dishing out red meat.

    I saw Sarah Palin in an interview yesterday. When asked if she would help the Obama adminstration, if asked, she replied, "of course, I'd be honored". Apparently it's okay to pal around with people that pal around with terrorists. :D

    Bruce and Bill (the smart one), I have the greatest respect for you guys. I consider myself a pretty smart fellow but know that I sometimes make mistakes. This discussion on politics has shown me that other really smart gentlemen can also sometimes be wrong. :D

    Peace,
    Bill (the other one)
     
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

  3. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member


    Precisely! That sums it all up.

    BTW, I think you are pretty damn smart Bill Huffman.

    Abner :)
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    That's very kind but extremely dangerous. If my ego grows anymore then the whole planet will be in mortal danger from the creature of the id. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Planet
     
  5. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    By starting his political career in Ayers' home, Obama made excuses beyond any rational explaination.

    Yes.....so? He's still an unrepentant terrorist.

    Well, I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I've had to go through quite a number of security clearances in my life. Starting with being an Army MP, through being a police officer, through being assigned to the Boston DEA Task Force.

    At each level, if I had even a passing relationship with someone like Bill Ayers, who has the blood of murdered US citizens on his hands, my security clearance application would have been tossed in the nearest shredder in about a nonosecond.

    Yet, someone who couldn't possibly pass that same background check I did, is going to be the Commander-In-Chief in a couple of months.

    You don't see ANYTHING wrong with that??

    I'll give credit where it's due, and will say that Obama isn't stupid, by any stretch of the imagination. That's because that would have mean he's either brain dead, or the biggest moron in the history of civilization, to not know the truth about Bill Ayers.

    As I have great respect for you, the other Bill, and everyone else here who is an established member who expresses their opinion on any issue, be it DL, politics, whatever.

    We can ALWAYS agree to disagree! :)
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    It is not true that Obama started his political career in Ayer's home. That was just one of the silly politically motivated lies that were spewed during the campaign. Similar to the ridiculous lie that Bill Clinton was a communist spy. I really don't know what silly excuses you're referring to here? Perhaps I haven't heard all the claims as to the evil things that Obama was supposed to have done? Perhaps a more basic question is do you believe that President Bill Clinton was/is a communist spy, did you believe that statement when it was being made during the 1992 campaign?

    That is his background. The point that I can't seem to get across is that people meeting him prior to the 2008 election would believe that he is a college professor and political activist. In the interview I didn't see any tatoo on his forehead saying, "unrepentent terrorist". In the interview he denied killing or even hurting anyone. (Note that may or may not be true but prior to this interview I had understood incorrectly that Ayers was an unrepetent murderer who admitted to murder. The point being I had fallen prey to at least some of the political rhetoric being spewed.)

    Sorry, I don't believe that this assertion is true. My belief is that the association between these two men is very shallow and insignificant. You seem to believe that Ayers is still preaching terrorism and is in some kind of conspiracy with Obama. At the least you seem to be saying that Obama sympathisizes with such terrorist type activities.

    Pray tell how you think that Obama could have known that Bill Ayers was a member of the Weather Underground? If you met Bill Ayers at a PTA meeting or a political caucus six years ago do you think you would have known who he was? I know that I sure wouldn't. And I was a teen during those years rather than in Elementary school. Even today if I was in a public elevator and Bill Ayers stepped in I would wish him good morning and not have a clue who he was. Heck, maybe I've been working for 30 years with someone that was in the Weather Underground and not knowing it. Does that mean I'm brain dead or the biggest moron in the history of civilization because I don't know the truth about the past of people around me?

    Peace and regards,
    Bill (the other one)
     
  7. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

     
  8. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Bill (the other one), I simply don't take the word of a terrorist when he says he didn't kill anyone, and I don't believe for a second that Obama didn't know about Ayers' background; I have a very finely tuned bullshit detector that's rarely wrong. As for Ayers being unrepentant, he said in his book that he's not sorry for his association with the Weathermen, and even stated they should have done more. More bombings and murders, I presume?

    As for the background check, I'd bet my life savings that Obama couldn't pass it if he were just a guy applying to the Secret Service. The man who is going to be Commander-in-Chief in a couple of months. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Gin Ichimaru

    Gin Ichimaru New Member

    Come on, back in the '60s we all protested. It was the times! You know, Down with the establishment! Black Power! Get whitey! Make love not war! Change through Revolution and not Evolution! If your'e not part of the solution than get out of the way! In other words we either fought the system of supported those fighting the system.

    Obama represents a new direction in America. The 60's and post 60's generations are now taking over. This is not the phony liberalism of Clinton or Bush's reactionary conservative but a new America. This is the America which was raised on Rock 'n Roll. We want to see the US as part of, and not separated from the rest of the world.

    As for this weatherman guy, Ayers who never was really a "friend" of Obama's but at best a business associate, well he was part of the Weatherman. But so were a large section of the american public. The Students for a Democratic Society were busy on many college campuses across the US. Remember that in the 60s the country was torn apart. There was war and repression. The Black Panthers and other Black Power groups rose up and demanded power. There were reasons for this fight! War, police brutality, the FBI collaborating with the Mafia to bring drugs into black ghettos in able to destroy the power of the Panthers. Young America saw what was happening and would not take it! They burned their draft cards, they raised hell, they grew their hair long and rejected the old and tired values of the past. Some blew up buildings, but most protested.

    I was a little too young to be a participant in that era. But I do remember it well. When the Democratic National Convention was protested in '68 and Daley sent his goons to gas those protesting and beat them, I got to think, "Who are the real terrorists here?" When inmates took over Attica and brotherhood ruled the prison grounds, and inmates of all races and categories stopped fighting and stood shoulder to shoulder, it was a sign of solidarity! Not one guard was killed by inmates. The only guards killed were by police sharpshooters when they stormed the prison.
     
  11. Gin Ichimaru

    Gin Ichimaru New Member

    And speaking about Terrorism....

    http://tvnewslies.org/html/george_w__bush_-_world_s_leadi.html

    I can also find you information concerning the suspension of Habeas Corpus, the unlawful detention of foreign nationals, the use of torture and so on and so forth.

    Terrorism seems to be a powerful word. When you fight "terrorists" you have the absolute right to use any force necessary. But when you are the one doing it is a different story.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2008
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member


    I think that George Bush let his personal sense of righteousness and belief of inherient goodness in this country lead him to the false conclusion that the end can justify the means. He brought this country down to the same level as the terrorists that he wished to battle. In so doing, he let al Qaida use our own behavior against us, swelling the terrorist ranks and alienating most of the rest of the world. Part of me would love to see him held accountable for his illegal actions. The other part knows that it would just continue the horrible partisanship that has infected Washington. It's best to let Bush retire to Texas and eventually let the history books make the final judgement on his presidency.
     
  13. Gin Ichimaru

    Gin Ichimaru New Member

    I would agree, but the sad thing is that there are many americans who supported him in the last two elections.
     
  14. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    No, all of you actually were not protesting.

    For example; back in 1967 my uncle was too busy flying his Cobra gunship in Vietnam, covering the emergency extraction of a LRRP team, to protest anything. Unfortunately, he was shot down, badly wounded, and spent over a year recovering before he was returned to flight status.

    Oh, and the first time he went out in public in uniform after being released from the hospital, one of your protesters spit on him.

    But it was the times, right? :rolleyes:

    As for the rest of your drivel, it will proven wrong soon enough.
     
  15. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    Jeez, the anti-Obama nonsense has started already. "We don't know who he is..., cavorting with terrorists.....socialist redistribution of wealth etc."

    We are finally saying goodbye to the worst and most disgraceful president in modern times and you're ready to take down Obama before he's even taken office. It's time to give thanks and to be proud that the electorate had the courage to make such a bold choice.

    A couple of points:

    Your taxes have already been raised for the last 8 years in the form of $10 billion a month on Iraq and massive increases in debt. Now you're worried about all those "social programs" that Obama is going to fund. Good Lord take your blinders off. Obama is going to end the biggest social program of all - the war in Iraq. Thank your lucky stars.

    Redistribution of wealth is not socialism. An efficient distribution of wealth is the goal of any capitalist economic system. That's what good economics is. Like Rich, I can never figure out why people who would generally benefit under Democratic policies are so against them.
     
  16. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I can't wait until my tax money stops going to Iraq. We need the money here. For god sakes, we are borrowing money to fund that mess. Let alone the many, many years of long term care for head injuries, PTSD, etc. 10 billion a month could fund a hell of lot of things here in this country. We also need to allocate some of that money to our returning vets in the form of increased PTSD programs, job retraining and civilian immersion transfer skills so they can enter the job market quicker. I work alongside the DOL Vet program, and I got a tell you, a lot of these guys are coming home to NOTHING! Many (more then the media reports) are living under bridges. If they do get something, it is a drop in the bucket.

    You are right on with your comments. I think the common man has been trained to vote against his own interests. I can't figure it out.

    Abner
     
  17. basrsu

    basrsu Member

    I think the common man has been trained to vote against his own interests.


    Uh, let me take a wild guess...

    That means he/she votes Republican, right?

    basrsu
     
  18. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I think that those are valid concerns.

    Obama is a young guy who sort of appeared on the national stage from out of nowhere, he does have unsavory radical associations back home in Chicago, and he was the chosen candidate of the Democratic party's left-wing base. Those things raise red-flags and it's perfectly reasonable to express concern about them.

    I will say that most of his announced appointments so far have come from the Democratic party's more pragmatic grownups and that I don't have any tremendous objection to them. If he governs in the same spirit, then he might just turn out to be a pretty good President.

    You can't have things both ways Tom. You can't throw out your own never-ending angry invective against Bush, while insisting that Obama be immune from criticism. Realistically, Obama is going to be receiving incoming criticism constantly, much of it over-the-top, and much of it unfair. Just like what Bush has received. That's how the American political game is played in these latter days.

    There's very little common national identity, consensus or purpose left in this country. The center is eroded and almost destroyed. What we have instead is the population divided into two absolutely hostile factions whose only real reason for being is totally destroying their opposite numbers. The reds and the blues (gang colors).

    It's split families, communities and workplaces. It's even gradually taking over Degreeinfo and driving its participants apart, turning friends into enemies.

    That's not going to stop tommorrow, magically, now that your guy has been elected. That particular genie's probably never going to climb back into it's bottle.
     
  19. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

  20. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    I disagree; other than FOXNews and talk radio, I expect the media's honeymoon with Obama to last at least a year.

    But, when they eventually turn on him (and they will), it will be very ugly.
     

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