Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Guest, Jul 12, 2004.
A PhD awarded in Biblical Studies for a 50 page dissertation with 15 books in the bibliography. Makes me want to puke.
Pepto Bismol will coat that irritated stomach, Bill......
Also, there doesn't seem to be any studying of the Bible itself.
I find that kind of odd for a Bible college, or did I miss some thing on their website!!
A.A. in Theological Studies, Trinity College of the Bible (present)
What a horrible website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A 50-page dissertation, wow! Would barely cover the lit review!
Jimmy , I like your Jeremiah sig. ...so Calvinistic Oops I went off topic AGAIN Shame on me!
Thanks! We still have Free Will to follow the plan or not, right?
Off topic keeps the blood flowing and boiling.
Depends whether, as Jeremiah's words imply, God is omniscient, I think:
Would He plan what He knew would not occur? But if He did not know , He is not omniscient .
But if He knew by omniscience , is it not determined? But if it is determined , how can our freewill prevent it ?
But if there is an irresistible plan , why would Newburgh Seminary exist unless it is decreed by God?
But if Newburgh Seminary is decreed by God, then is God not the Author of mills??
(see I'm back to the topic of the thread )
Two thoughts. Perhaps Jeremiah is speaking about salvation and one's eternal destiny (future in the kingdom and hope for renewal of life). Second, perhaps Newburgh is following God's plan but not His expressed will--not being a mill.
Theology is so much fun!
If my destiny has been pre-ordained by Him, why should I worry about the future? Eschatologically speaking, it also means that God has decided whether I will go to heaven or not.
Thanks for the offer to chat with you about destiny and whatnot. I appreciate it. But with your permission I'll not pursue this just now. Thanks,
Hey, I must admit, I like Newburgh Seminary's upgraded website. But I'd be a lot more impressed if they'd upgrade their PROGRAMS! The coat of paint looks good, but the car is a clunker! I've never seen anything so ridiculous...
Take the bait: check out Masters Divinity School in Evansville.
Woo hoo hee hee!
La dracu, Jimmy 'n' Bill: it really IS awful. Laughing my Carpathian ass off at this one. Love the palimpsest-style website. 50 page doc with a book to read by "Geze" Vermes. Snork!
Hey how can you go wrong with Dr Christmas and Dr Prickett? No, c'mon, what are their real names?
Not ever-body kin go tew siminery at the Hampton Inn.
Jeff orter soo.
I am currently a student at NTS in the D.Min program. Now, before anyone thinks I am going to start defending the Ph.D policies of Newburgh, I'm not. In fact, I spoke to Dr. Mollette about the Ph.D program, voicing my concerns that there is "NO" prof at NTS that has a earned Ph.D (I'm from the school that believes only those with Ph.Ds can grant Ph.Ds). I think one of the greatest strengths the school has is its' affordability. I mean, I am a graduate from SBTS and there was no way I was going to earn a degree that had as few requirements in the D.Min progam as NTS. But, Dr. Mollette agreed to work one on one with me to do the D.Min (prospectus attached). NTS has its' issues, of that there is no doubt, but I hope they will develop and strengthen their curriculum in the coming years because many people could benefit from a solid, affordable education (when I say affordable, I am talking for poor folks like me who can't leave their ministries to earn a RA degree, but want to increase their ministry skills). I could share some more of my issues with NTS, like the fact that if you look over their course list you will find anything from conservative scholars like Robert Stein to near unbelievers like John Dominic Crossan-confusing to say the least.
And, as far as the names of Dr. Christmas and Dr. Prickett, those are their real names and because I know them and their ministries, one should really get to know them before making fun of their names. Both have had unusually fruitful ministries for Christ.
Blessings to you all in Christ!
When they start spelling Carpathian names right (G.V. is a West Carpathian) I'll quit snorking at them. Then, I'll just ridicule them calmly over a doctorate with a 50-page dissertation.
Guys, guys, betcha never thought you'd hear me say this: even TTS is a better choice than this thing as it stands.
I really do wish you well in your studies. But there's a line between substandard and silly. If you've got evidence that this school ought to be ratcheted up to "substandard", link it or in your own words post it. (You mentioned a prospectus--some sort of personal arrangement?)
I'm surely not RA or no way, or even ATS or no way. Not even close. My challenge to you is doable: persuade me.
First, it is absurd to grant a Ph.D to anyone on the basis of a few (I think 6 courses) plus a very limited dissertation. Not to mention my gripes (see my last entry) with non-Ph.D's granting Ph.Ds. I don't even pretend to defend that.
And, honestly, I can only speak for myself with my own D.Min. I am sure there are many guys who did the 6 course + 15-20 page writing project and received a D.Min. I just couldn't go that route becuase I believe that if one is to hold a degree is should be or approach being comparable to other D.Mins. For example, I based my prospectus loosely on the D.Min requirements of LRS and SBTS.
Basically, all I wanted in my degree was 1.) To be held accountable to doing study that would increase my ministry skills. 2.) Have a base of professors who were well seasoned ministers (Drs. Mollette, Christmas and Prickett all qualified for me) and 3.) Produce a solid body of work.
There is no doubt in my mind that as the NTS regulations are set-up, this could not be accomplished. But, Dr. Mollette allowed me to craft my D.Min to fit my own personal, spiritual and ministerial goals. I appreciated that. My prospectus is below, but I don't know if anyone else at NTS went beyond the basics of the curriculum as stated on the website.
Doctor of Ministry Prospectus
The student will engage himself in the study of 6 courses that break down into one major and one minor emphasis. This student selects Historic Baptist Theology and Practical Ministry as his major and minor, respectively. A report, in accordance with NTS requirements, either individually or collectively of the reading and learning will be produced of no less than ten pages.
Major-Southern Baptist Theology
1. Confessional Identity and Fidelity-The student shall attain a superb knowledge of the history of confessional identity in the Christian Church and particularly the Southern Baptist Convention. The student should be able at the end of the course to understand the history of the BF&M, understand and gain superb knowledge in its teaching and be able to distribute that knowledge at the congregational level.
1. Baptist Reformation-Sutton
2. What Baptists Believe-Hobbs
3. A Hill on Which to Die-Pressler
4. Abstract of Theology-Boyce
5. Associated Readings of no less than 10 on the history of the SBC and the BF&M to be cited and referenced in the courses final report.
2. Baptist Faith and Message Project
A. The student will develop and distribute a survey that consists of historic Southern Baptist faith, doctrine and practice to be surveyed by numerous (apprx. 100) Christians that hold Southern Baptist membership. A report will be given of the findings. The concept is to see how prevalent doctrinal fidelity is held at the local level.
B. The student will obtain a copy and report on the pamphlet, Why Baptists Must Teach their Distinctive Views-Broadus.
C. The Student will write a commentary on the Baptist Faith and Message of no less than 50 pages. This should be written in a manner applicable to be taught at the local church level, utilizing and citing any research necessary.
3. Selected Baptist Theologians and Pastors
A. The Student will research and report on ten influential past and modern day Baptist Theologians and Pastors. The student shall endeavor to learn how these pastors and theologians have influenced Southern Baptist life and their life impact on society. There shall be no less than 10 cited sources in the report.
B. In conjunction, the student will read Uneasy in Babylon and include it in the final report for the course.
I. Biblical Preaching
A. Student will attend the accelerated seminar on preaching and report on the assigned reading for the course as well as report on the following.
1. Biblical Preaching-Cox
2. Sermon Method and Delivery-Broadus
3. The student will read or hear no less than 12 sermons from Baptist preachers and evaluate their strengths, weaknesses and effectiveness as well as the style of sermonic form they utilized.
4. The student will also become familiar with various methods of preaching as well as undergoing a critical critique of his preaching. The critique shall be examined by others and the effectiveness of the student’s preaching examined. In the final report, no less than 10 sources from associated readings will be cited.
II. Christian Counseling-In this course, the student will become familiar with the mode, method and theology of biblical counseling. Particular emphasis will be gained on grief counseling, care giving and pastoral care. Student will attend the accelerated seminar on counseling and report on the assigned reading for the course as well as report the following.
1. Introduction to Counseling-Adams
2. Competent to Counsel-Adams
3. McArthur’s Biblical Counseling
4. Christian Counselors Manual
5. Review of Grace Life tapes-Steve McVeigh
6. Student will also begin the process of counseling certification through the Southern Baptist Association of Biblical Counselors.
III. Church Planting
1. Planting Churches in a Postmodern Age-Stetzer
2. Attain, if possible, a copy of Ed Stetzer’s Dissertation on the NAMB’s Church Planting Process
3. Attend a Spiritual Warfare Seminar with Dr. Chuck Lawless
4. Associated readings on church planting and site this in the final report. The final report should be able to present the effectiveness of church planting in fulfilling the Great Commission and the various methods of planting reviewed.
5. Include in the report the planting of a new work in Ferdinand, IN by the associated groups of churches in Spencer, Perry and Dubois counties including reforming of the Southwest Association and the impact of multi-church involvement in church planting as well as state and national involvement.
The student shall research and prepare a dissertation titled, Southern Baptist Confessional Identity, A Project to Teach Confessional Identity to Southern Baptists.
1. The dissertation shall be no less than 100 pages in length and be written in accordance to the Style Manual.
2. The student shall research and cite all information in the dissertation and report it in accordance to the Southern Seminary Manual of Style.
3. The Dissertation will give particular focus to the history of historic church confessions and how those confessions impact the congregational strengths. A review of Baptist Confessions, their authors and purpose shall be included up to the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message. The research will attempt to provide solutions for the lack of confessional identity and determine the pulpit to pew responsibilities of why Southern Baptists need to teach their particular doctrines to avoid past departures from the faith. Research shall also be gained as to the cultures like/dislike of confessions and denominations. And include a possible set of questions for the ordination of pastors/deacons/evangelists formed from the Baptist Faith and Message.
4. The dissertation will be orally defended to Drs. Glen Mollette, T.A. Prickett and Art Christmas.
Guidance and Mentorship
I. The student will discuss his progress weekly with Dr. Glen Mollette and receive guidance and instruction as needed in addition to having all work turned in reviewed.
Dr. Glen Mollette
p.s.-Also, I used to think that NTS, TTS and MDS were all connected. But a conversation with a official with MDS made it clear that the Dr. Mollette started TTS on his own, at whihc time TTS made a clear and distinct departure with Dr. Mollette. MDS let Dr. Mollette go for the same reason, but not as radically as TTS did.
Blessings to you all in Christ!
Sorry, in that last line, "Also, I used to think that NTS, TTS and MDS were all connected. But a conversation with a official with MDS made it clear that the Dr. Mollette started TTS on his own..." I meant to say Dr. Mollette started NTS on his own! OOPS!!!!!
Have to confess I never heard of John Dominic Crossan.
With the prospectus you outlined I would think TTS or even MDS would be better choices.
But, I wish you good luck. I have a question. In your study of Baptist history will you just study SBC history?
P.S. Oh my, just found this on the Internet:
This guy makes me look conservative!
Thanks for looking over my last post. As to your opinion that TTS or MDS would have been better choices, my friend, I heartily agree. I'm just being honest when I say two factors really influenced my decision to go to NTS; funds and specific studies. If I had the funds and opportunity, I would have went to Southern to do my D.Min. And, you never know, maybe the Lord will open a door for me to do just that in the future. As for now, however, this is all I could do.
And, to answer your question, yes. Especially in the first course listed. That will go back in confessional history to even the Apsotles' Creed, through the Nicene and Anti-Nicene fathers, to the influence of Pope Gregory the Great (a personal favorite) to the Anabaptist confessions and London confessions, to the American Baptists Confessions and split and then to Southern Baptists. I really believe that confessional identity is the key to preserving the future fidelity of Baptists to Scripture. Also, I plan on observing heavily the preaching and writings of certain Baptists which aren't Southern Baptists (Keach, Spurgeon, Gill, for examples).
Blessings to you through our Sovereign Lord, my friend!
Separate names with a comma.