Neil and Century

Oops...one more thing,

Terry, your mentioning of your wife...oops.. I meant your rationale for attacking Neil, is just a little too unconvincing.

Next time, take your time. It's too quick.

Cheers,

Byran

 

"Doctor" is the proper title for anyone who has earned a doctoral degree, whether from an unaccredited or accredited institution. Just look at the number of doctoral professionals teaching at RA schools with an unaccredited doctorate degree and you'll see that the institution (at which they teach)refer to these professionals as "Doctor". Perform a Goggle.com search and you'll see to what I refer.

Quality unaccredited institutions exist. More than anything, accreditation permits a student to receive federal student loans.

Regards, Wes

 

This isn't always the case in academe. The community college in my town has a faculty member who has RA bachelor's and master's degrees. He then has a MBA and DBA from California Coast. When I inquired as to the school policy (only one month ago) I was told that the person was hired and maintains his position based on the two RA degrees. And that he is neither remunerated for the two unaccredited degrees, nor is he addressed as Dr. *****--by either his fellow faculty members or students. The MBA and DBA, however, is listed in the school catalog (which seems contradictory), which is where I saw it.

Russell

 

Check the college catalog or handbook and see if this person is titled "Doctor" or "Mister"

Regards, Wes

 

Wes, neither title is used for any of the faculty. Each person is listed with name only, with degrees listed afterward--even the president who has an Ed.D.

In conversation with the HR manager, I asked if this individual was addressed as "Dr." by his students (I was curious). I was told no, and that his peers did not address him as such either, because this was reserved for those who had a RA doctorate or its equivalent.

Russell

 

Are the degree's listed in the catalog?

Regards, Wes

 

Yes they are! I was perusing the catalog because my wife is taking some classes there in medical terminology. So when I saw the CCU degrees, I called and spoke with the school's administration--not to expose the guy, but to check the school's policy. If they recognized the CCU degrees I thought this would be positive for CCU.

Both persons to whom I spoke were a little annoyed that the degrees were listed in the catalog, and I was told that the information printed in the catalog came from the individual faculty members, and that the CCU degrees would not be included in the next edition. The faculty person has solid BA and MA degrees, and is therefore able to teach based on those degrees. Reading between the lines, it appeared that the school didn't care that he had the CCU degrees, they just were not going to recognize them in terms of salary increase or even addressing the guy as "Dr.," since they were not RA. The HR guy told me he had already been dealing with this very issue even before I called.

Russell

 

With regard to the use of "Dr.", if you are in Florida and use a title to which, under Florida law, you're not entitled to use, it's a crime. This came up in the context of unaccredited doctorates, which are not supposed to be used by residents of Florida to claim the title of "Dr."

Also, some schools don't bother with titles at all. Oberlin College, a small, selective liberal arts school in Ohio, refers to all of its professors as "Mr. so-and-so" or "Ms. so-and-so" in the catalog, regardless of whether s/he holds a doctorate. (Something like 85% of Oberlin faculty hold doctoral degrees, so it's not like they're hiding something by doing that, either.) I found it really refreshing... while there are always a few pompous academics at any institution, there were very few such people (at least among professors) at Oberlin.

And I have a very hard time with the notion that someone who has purchased a degree from Trinity has as much right to be called "Dr." as someone who earned their degree at Union or Princeton or wherever.

 

I have mixed feelings about the issue. I can see that graduates of some unaccredited schools (like BJU & PCC) deserve the title if they have a doctorate. I do not think that graduates of doctoral programs in state approved schools should be entitled to be called "Dr.". In fact I would not mind seeing some sort of consumer protection law that required unaccredited degrees to be appended with some sort of designation. For example, M.A. (unaccredited). There is very little way for people to easily sort out the relative worth of unaccredited degrees (eg. between California approved and South Dakota approved).

I do believe that individuals are entitled to the respect that comes with earning an accredited doctorate and should be referred to as "Dr.".

It would be nice to see states actually accredit universities and colleges through a state regulatory agency. That is provided that they could develop some sort of uniform standard of quality. States routinely regulate Day Cares, Residential Treatment Centers, and various other entities. It would not be too much of a leap for them to develop and adopt standards for the genuine and substantial regulation on higher education.

North

 

Chip,

Check your later editions of Bear's Guide to find that this unAmerican law was shot down by the FLA supreme court. Now if only someone would have the money and fortitude to challenge the Oregonion administrative "kangaroo court" with their nefarious list...

 

Why are you blasting Mr. Hynd so badly? I saw his web site in which he explicitly mentions his doctorate as state approved DL doctorate, he is being very honest about it and judging by his website seems to be doing very good with it. Not every body wants to be a big shoot professor at a top ten university.
http://38.214.205.100/gld3/255.html

 

Did North blast Mr. Hynd personally? I read his post three times and saw nothing indicative of that. It was more a sharing of his opinion regarding accredited/unaccredited doctorates in general?

 

Not North, The complete thread, I think the guy is just sharing his experience, at the corporate level no one cares if you have a doctorate, it is your results. RA PhDs are mainly for people interested in licensed professions requiring a PhD or academia, industry doesn't pay a PhD so it is not relevant if it is RA or unaccredited.

 

Regarding the controversy of whether or not a person can be called "Dr.": Although I have on rare occasions addressed academics as "Dr.," I generally just leave it at "Prof.," and then only if they are affiliated with a university. Otherwise, I think plain-old "Mr." is fine, and anything else is pretentious.

Some people, including myself, think that "Dr." should be reserved for people with medical degrees and degrees in suchlike health-related fields (M.D.s, dentists, podiatrists, and, hell, let's be generous, licensed chiropractors). Calling people in academia "Dr."--and, gasp!, I'm stating my opinion as fact here--is just really, really tacky.

 

Who says that the medical community should have the monopoly on the title "Dr."? This is a fallacy and degress such as the Ph.D. have been awarded long before the M.D. If a person has an earned doctorate they are entitled to use the title "Dr."

Dr. John

 

_____________________________________________
Chip, only is ilegal if you use a tittle that you have not earn (illegal degrees) state approved are legal degrees in Florida and you are allow to use after your name the letters that represent that you have earn a Doctorate degree(DBA, ED,etc..,). However, Dr. in front of your name is reserve for some professions listed under Florida laws, like MD, Dentist, etc...,


About calling your self doctor, in Latin America, all lawyers are refers as doctor or any person that hold a doctorate, in other professions like engineering, they are call by the tittle like ING. John Doe, or Lic. Joe Doe (meaning that he/she holds a license to practice that profession). And by etiquette they are address as so. Even people who are whealthy are call Don(It is like a society Tittle, just like Saying in England Sir Francis Drake).

I have met many faculty members that they preffer to be call by their first name not by Dr.

best regards,

Vini

 

Many others, including myself, feel that if a person has earned the doctorate legitimately, s/he has the right to use the title (if s/he so chooses)--regardless of what field it is in. Disciplines where the use of the title is common include: medicine, academia, clergy, etc. So Dr. John Doe, professor, is no less a "Dr." than Dr. Jim Roe, dentist.

Russell

 

If a professional has an earned doctorate I think it is proper to use the title "Dr" within the confines of the professional relationship and/or environment. However, if interacting with this same person outside the professional relationship / environment it is acceptable to either refer to the person as Dr., Mr., or Mrs., Ms., etc but your reference might be interpreted as passive-aggressive as an act of disrespect. If I encounter one of my professors or former professors outside the classroom setting I'm not going to refer to him or her as Mr. or Mrs./Ms. Nor do I refer to my MD friends (operative word, "friends") as Dr. when in a social setting.

Use your better judgement and when uncertain always error on the side of caution.

Regards, Wes

 

Why are certain segments of modern society are so obsessed with the usage of the title "Doctor." Is it to make up for a lack of something? The usage of this title has actually been evolving in the last few centuries--and I would not doubt, will continue to evolve in different applications cross culturally and in the future.

In England, vetinarians and dentists are not called "Doctor" unless they have an earned doctorate. On the other hand, physicians with Bachelors of Medicine/Surgery are given the honorary title of "Doctor." At the same time, surgeons, regardless if they have an earned doctorate or not, are often referred to as "Mr." in the clinical setting when consulted as a medical specialist. In the early to mid 19th century, the title "Doctor" was more often reserved for a Doctor of Divinity (theologians and clergy with doctorates in theology).

In Latin America, professionals with doctorates are referred to as "Doctor" or with their professional titles--and most do not make such a big deal between being called by their professional verses academic title.

In Asia, one usually disregards the academic doctoral title in place of the professional title.

I think it is best to use professional titles--it is more clear and succinct. America should have a movement to use such. So, if one is a physician or dentist--use Physician or Dentist Smith respectively. If one is a professor--Prof. Smith, etc. Anyone think this would be clearer for all?

EsqPhD

 

It would be nice to see states actually accredit universities and colleges through a state regulatory agency. That is provided that they could develop some sort of uniform standard of quality. States routinely regulate Day Cares, Residential Treatment Centers, and various other entities. It would not be too much of a leap for them to develop and adopt standards for the genuine and substantial regulation on higher education.


North

[/B][/QUOTE]

As you know (but might not be willing to admit) California already does this but instead of confusing consumers with the word "accredited" the term "Approved" is used.

I personally see very little difference in CA Approval as compared to RA. As an employer, if ever presented a candidate for employment with a CA approved degree I will accept the qualification without hesitation. I would not be as quick to accept a state licensed degree without first investigating the state process, etc. But I for one think that CA Approval is a valued process worth respecting.

Too much weight is placed on RA in my opinion.

Regards, Wes