My current dilemma - PhD or DBA?

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by Luke Voigt, Mar 16, 2018.

Loading...
  1. Luke Voigt

    Luke Voigt New Member

    Good Morning,

    I'm currently finishing up an MBA through Mercer University in Georgia. My ultimate goal has always been to pursue a doctorate and teach in a university setting. I probably could have taken better steps to prepare myself, but I really only plan to teach in a local university or community college.

    DBA - My ideal route. There are a couple of programs that "require" several years of senior management or executive experience. I'm in my mid-20s, and the only management experience I have is managing a sports arena in the South East. I like this route because even though I enjoy writing and research, I appreciate that it's more practical-focused and let research-focus. I think I will apply to some anyways and see if my objectives and my GPA combined with some good references will result in admission acceptance. Jacksonville State has a DBA that is online except for monthly on-campus meetings, but they require "7 years" of senior management experience. I'm not sure if I can pull that off.

    PhD - Definitely interested in this. I love research and writing, and while this seems "tougher" than a DBA (based on talking with various schools and faculty), this seems like a much better option to get a job at a better university. It also seems easier to be admitted given my relatively short career experience. However, my issue is that I cannot move to be an on-campus student. While I think that Capella, Grand Canyon, and Walden may be accredited, I'm afraid that having those names on my resume will work against me. Kansas State University has a PhD in Personal Financial Management that's all online except for 10-day on-campus visits once per year.

    Is it possible to get into a half-decent DBA program with limited management experience? Also, is anyone familiar with some part-time or mostly-online PhD/DBA programs with research topics in finance/personal finance?

    Thank you all for your insight.
    -Luke
     
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Actual academics should weight on this, and I also want to hear an answer to this. My plan is to get a Master's in Accounting either by this December or by June 2018, and then perhaps see if I can transition to postsecondary teaching. So I eye doctoral programs, by peripheral vision, as well.

    My take is that DBA/PhD distinction is not of primary importance. It's your research output, your advisor, and the school that matter. Eg. a DBA from Jacksonville State would be better received in academia than Capella or Walden because JSU is AACSB-accredited brick-and-mortar school, and academia is severely biased against doctorates from schools seen as "online". You can still find work, but not at all schools. KSU sounds even better, as a state flagship or one of the flagships. Stellar athletic program, too (I used to know someone from back home who went on to become one of their star athletes).

    That being said, my fantasy program is Edinburgh Business School at Heriot-Watt University https://www.ebsglobal.net/programmes/dba . In fact, they recently revamped a program a bit, and one can earn either a DBA or PhD, depending on I believe the style of the thesis. Choice of research topic appears to be pretty flexible; they definitely can do Finance. It's about half the price (or less) of a typical American distance doctorate, and while not AACSB comes from an impressive, public, research-intensive university that would be mid-first-tier in US, comparable to KSU. Alas, I probably can't justify even their, very reasonable, tuition fees.
     
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Historically the PhD is considered to be an "academic" degree and the DBA is the "practitioner" degree and so if the primary goal is to teach then the standard answer is to earn the PhD. Are there people with DBAs teaching? Of course. We know that the world is not so clear cut. As for specific schools, that's trickier. I'd suggest finding a school that has a Masters program in Finance in addition to a PhD program. That way you will have a better shot at finding a doctoral advisor with an orientation toward Finance. Also, if you haven't done it already, I'd suggest you read through this thread.

    https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/lowest-cost-phd-dba.26125/
     
  4. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Hey there. I teach just down I-16 from you, maybe we can have a cup of coffee sometime when I'm in Macon. Why can't you move to pursue a PhD? I'm a pedantic stickler for detail. Picky a-hole. Rip into my children for failing to distinguish between "can't" and "don't want to". Honestly, which is it? "Can't" or "Don't want to"? Are you in prison? Are you an immovable object? Are you trapped in a vortex? Let's get that established first, then I'll give you whatever advice I have, for what it's worth.
     
  5. foobar

    foobar Member

    Be careful with the DBA if the plan is to teach at an AACSB-accredited school.

    AACSB just (2017) updated the guidance for faculty qualifications from a "research degree" to to doctorate the is "advanced, foundational and discipline-specific." I'm sure a business-discipline Ph.D. qualifies. I'm also sure Harvard's DBA qualifies. And I can think of at least one other DBA (Kennesaw) that would qualify in my field of accounting. That being said, I have no idea where the line is drawn to determine whether other DBAs qualify.

    It's still possible to get a job with a doctorate that is not "advanced, foundational, and discipline-specific." Sufficient published research will definitely work. If a department's current faculty composition is Ph.D. "heavy," a school can still meet AACSB standards with additional faculty that are classified as other than "Scholarly Academics."
     
  6. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    LATech's DBA also qualifies in accounting, it's heavily academic research-oriented and essentially a PhD in DBA clothing--alas, it can't be pursued at a distance. There's a list somewhere out there, part of a scholarly article, where the various DBA programs are researched and the authors place them into the categories of appropriate for academic research jobs or not. I don't know where it is, but someone ought to be able to find it with a good Google search. Several programs are considered generally appropriate by the authors of this article.

    A lot of it will have to do with the specific field, one might have a better chance of landing in academia in a field like accounting, where universities are becoming desperate to land an academically qualified professor, as opposed to management or economics, which are far more competitive for applicants.
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    I have a DBA, I have interviewed for several faculty positions. Bottom line is the research in your resume, most Universities want to see high impact journals in your resume. Both DBA or PhD qualify for faculty positions but the main difference is going to be the research output, number of grants, research supervision, teaching evaluations, etc. Then there is the prestige of the school, most Universities would expect at least a ranked school in your resume that is credible enough. The other aspect is accreditation, AACSB accreditation is a must if you are targeting AACSB accredited schools.

    The PhD tag is easier to market as people know what it is, DBAs are also known but some people don't know what it is you might be ruled out only because ignorance.

    The PhD might be better because the program pushes to publish while DBAs many times are meant for professionals that have no intention to become faculty so there are no publication requirements. However, if you publish then your DBA can do the job.

    It is not easy to find an AACSB accredited PhD offered part time or distance so this option might not be available, you have the non AACSB accredited doctorates but this type of programs normally only lead to faculty positions at community colleges or 4 year liberal arts colleges which is fine if this what you want. There are more AACSB DBA accredited programs that can be followed part time or distance.

    As for me, I scored well in teaching stream positions but not so well in research based positions that required at least one or two publications in top journals as my doctorate did not push me in this direction so I ended in a teaching stream tenure position but this is fine with me.

    I also would like to add that you might want to consider a program that offers the same program full time on campus with the part time -on line version. Most of my interviewers wanted me to explain how I earned the degree so it was easy to explain that the program can be full time on campus but also part time, this gives credibility. If you tell them that the program is only offered online, then many people will not consider you as many are still bias against online programs. Many British and Australian Universities have programs that can be done external or on campus, I think they are more credible than American options that only have online versions. Rankings also matter, many people would ask if the school is ranked and where, if the school is an online school most likely won't be ranked.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    I agree, the DBA from H-W would be more desirable than a PhD from Capella.
    Faculty positions are not easy to get, you have to convince a bunch of people that most likely went to the typical 5 year on campus program so most would not be so sympathetic about people with part time 4 years PhDs from schools with no ranking.
    If the position is at a 4 year college that advertises for a faculty position with a MS as a must and a PhD as the cherry on the cake, then Capella would be perceived as favorable when most candidates have a masters. This is not the type of school that pays $120 K as a starting salary but more likely 60K as starting salary with mainly teaching duties with little research requirements. Even the part time DBA from an AACSB accredited school would not compare as a full time 5 year residential, things being equal, the full time residential PhD would be considered better.

    I have gone through this process my self, interviews are with groups of 4 to 5 people than then recommend you to another 4 to 5 people than then recommend you to a dean. This means that you need to convince about 10 people that you are the best for the job, this is not so easy to achieve when competition has traditional 5 year programs on their resume while you completed yours part time online. It is not going to be an easy sell, many people do beat the odds against them but this happens rarely.
     
  9. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    There are small colleges and universities, not AACSB-accredited, where one can obtain an academic position, even full time, with a for-profit PhD. My son is being recruited by a small sectarian college for sports, and when I looked up the faculty in his preferred discipline (accounting), one has her PhD from Walden or someplace like that. I know a number of faculty teaching at ACBSP B-schools with Northcentral doctorates. Realize, in such cases, they'd probably already established themselves on the faculty masters-only, then pursued the degree part-time, or as part of an agreement between the for-profit university and their own (such as FHSU, which has or had an agreement with Northcentral).

    As RFValve says, though, a DBA from H-W would be stronger in the marketplace than a PhD from a for-profit. And of course, the research is king. You apply with a for-profit degree as a complete outsider, just another vita on the pile, your CV gets dumped at most B-schools, won't even be glanced at after they see UoP, Walden, NCU, etc. But on the other hand, if you have a for-profit PhD and they already know you because you've been presenting credible research at conferences, you might get looked at and wiggle into a campus interview
     
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I agree with all your points. The OP is asking if it makes a difference a PhD or DBA, my answer below:

    A PhD or DBA in business is mainly beneficial if you want to be faculty. Otherwise, an MBA from a top school would beat any DBA or PhD from a low or non ranked school for a professional position.

    A PhD from an AACSB accredited school from a full time program is preferred for most positions but in particular for AACSB accredited schools.

    If full time attendance is not an option, a DBA from a AACSB accredited school would give you the best chances at any school you want to apply (AACSB or non AACSB accredited) but you must be aware than PhDs from AACSB accredited normally would have an advantage because they most probably have more publications.

    If you cannot afford an AACSB program, then go for a DBA or PhD from a non for profit traditional school that offers a part time or online option, the designation (PhD or DBA) won't matter much because you will be targeting faculty positions at 4 year colleges where many times only a masters is required but the PhD or DBA might be seen as an advantage.

    If you don't want to take a program at a traditional school because reasons such as GPA, GMAT, time, etc. Then you should try to make up your resume with lots of teaching and professional experience and at least few publications so you can make up the lack of a reputable degree. The PhD or DBA designation won't mater much as you will be selling your teaching and professional experience.
     
  11. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Agreed on everything, RFValve. I'd rather have an MBA from Duke than a half-dozen for-profit PhDs, especially if I wanted a job outside of academia. There is a purpose for for-profit degrees and they serve a legitimate market, but generally, one who wants a career in academia should be thinking B&M nonprofit, even if it's online. I agree on the other stuff making up for a lack of a top-notch degree.

    The only thing I wonder is where the OP went. Wonder sometimes about those who post then disappear off the face of the earth. Maybe he'll come back, maybe my chiding him about "can't" and "don't want to" ran him off, though I hope not.
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    My guess is that the OP is looking at schools such as Walden, Capella and NCU where both options (DBA and PhD) are offered. At Walden for example, the DBA can be completed faster than the PhD, so the questions is if one can get the same position with a DBA as it takes less time. I believe Walden and other similar for profit have the DBAs as executive doctorates that are meant for more senior professionals that normally are already established so they don't need lots of research in their CVs and just need the doctorate for a better pay, administration positions in an academic environment, etc.

    If the OP is already set up for a for profit school and has little professional and academic experience, the PhD would be a better fit mainly because these programs have more research foundation and the PhD is better understood in general. One can look at Walden's web site for career options for a PhD below, notice that they are only offering the college teaching and not university teaching as they are being realistic:
    https://www.waldenu.edu/doctoral/phd-in-management/career-options

    For the DBA they also suggest faculty :

    https://www.waldenu.edu/doctoral/doctor-of-business-administration/career-options

    There is also the consultant path for both options but consultancy is more about business relations and experience, many consultants don't even have a degree. My guess is that the consultancy path mainly benefits because one could use the PhD title in a business card but there is not much benefit other than credibility as these programs do not concentrate much in case study solving or professional practice.
     
  13. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Since he's still very young, a flag trips when he says he'd be glad to teach at a small school, not looking for anything more than that. No big ambitions. He's so young, he can't really anticipate the future, perhaps with a family, with kids, with teenage kids wanting cars and eating lots of food and proms and then going off to college with tuition and the like. Gets very expensive, and since he still has time to do so, he should consider more options, such as a traditional PhD, rather than settling, as he may greatly regret his decision to settle down the road. When he says he enjoys research and writing, I'm 99.9% certain that he has virtually no clue about what academic research and writing is. He needs to look into this more, decide if that's the path he wants to go down. Again, I'm down the road from him (couple hours down the interstate), would be glad to have lunch with him next time I'm in Macon or if he's in my area and discuss this, but alas, he seems to have gone away. Hopefully he comes back.
     

Share This Page