More on Accreditation and Unaccreditation

Re: A Beer instead of a Burger??

 

And your doctorate is from....?

In the course of your doctoral study, how did you establish this? Oh, that's right. Sorry.

(Seriously, one certainly doesn't need a doctorate to comment on the quality of a school. But this was gratuitous and without basis. The quality of academics at UI&U have never come into question by its regional accreditor.)

 

Mental note:

Criticism of Union Institute is inherently unreasonable.

Mature people criticize California approved schools instead.

 

To criticize (according to Merriam-Webster's 1st definition):

1 : to consider the merits and demerits of and judge accordingly.

What, exactly did you do that constitutes criticism? If you've got something substantive to say about Union, say it. But the remark you made is both wrong and petty. Hence, the "grow up" comment.

By the way, if you want some help in criticizing Union, do a search on that topic and look for my threads. I don't know that anyone has had more substantive things to say about Union's faults than I have. Or haven't you looked?

 

Rich,

Thanks for your reply. I respect your points.
I have my own feels about my CCU degrees and maybe one day when I sort them out I will let you know.

 

It is ironic that some here are taking the stance and defending the difference between RA and State approved, since some would say that they are both sub-standard to hiring by some Universities (my famous posting which I got pounded by - not my opinion). For me, the jury is still out, I have decided to become educated about the differences before I make a statement on that subject.

I think we are now in a world that anyone who is applying for a job, or states they have a degree, must do some homework on what that means (what standards, etc).

30 years ago many didn't lock their doors at night and trusted what is on a resume, now lock those doors and look into statements made on resumes.

 

Rich Response: "As for my opinion of CCU, the only one I've ever offered is on the DBA program, which I feel fails as a doctorate because it has no dissertation componen."

Cehi:

What about their Ph.D programs. I took the liberty to preview CCU website. CCU claims a requirement for a dissertation oral defense for each of their Ph.D program. Is this real? Please share your wisdom or opinion on CCU:

1. Ph.D programs.
2. Oral defense process for their Ph.D programs.

Thank you.

 

The fact that some employers or licensing boards might want a specific professional accreditation, whether that's ABET, AACSB, ABA, AMA, FIDER, ATS, NASAD, AASM, ACAOM or whatever it is, doesn't suggest that institutional accreditation is equivalent to state-approval.

 

It would appear that CCU Ph.D. has both a dissertation requirement and a defense of it. Please note that I referred to the DBA, which has neither.

 

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but isn't a professional degree holding school automatically have institutional accreditation. For instance, an UC system school would have both, the professional accreditation more difficult, and usually a part of the qualification?

 

Institutional accreditation (regonal and national) and professional accreditation are done by different bodies. Someone with more time or motivation than I have might be able to offer an example of a school with the latter, but without the former. It would be a rare event, but it could happen.

 

The question all students of non-RA schools must ask is: If my school is just as acceptable and useful as a RA school, why is it unaccredited? CCU was founded in 1973 (according to their website), wouldn't it have been in their best interest to gain accreditation by now? There must be a reason for this.

 

Actually the answer is no. For example check out Cal State Monterey Bay and Cahnnel islands. Both are candidates for accreditation (although I believe Channel Islands has a working arrangement with Northridge for the time being). Also all UC schools do not have the same professional accreditation, nor is UC Merced automatically regionally accridted.

It is on a school be school, program by program basis.

For example see the following lists:
AACSB Accredited schools - California
University of California, Berkeley (USA - California)
University of California, Davis (USA - California)
University of California, Irvine (USA - California)
University of California, Los Angeles (USA - California)
California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo (USA - California)
California State Polytechnic University, Pomona (USA - California)
California State University, Bakersfield (USA - California)
California State University, Chico (USA - California)
California State University, Fresno (USA - California)
California State University, Fullerton (USA - California)
California State University, Hayward (USA - California)
California State University, Long Beach (USA - California)
California State University, Los Angeles (USA - California)
California State University, Northridge (USA - California)
California State University, Sacramento (USA - California)
California State University, San Bernardino (USA - California)
San Diego State University (USA - California)
San Francisco State University (USA - California)
San Jose State University (USA - California)


Non-AACSB Accredited
University of California, Merced (USA - California)
University of California, Riverside (USA - California)
University of California, San Diego (USA - California)
University of California, San Francisco (USA - California)
University of California, Santa Barbara (USA - California)
University of California, Santa Cruz (USA - California)
California State University Channel Islands
California State University Dominguez Hills
Humboldt State University
California Maritime Academy
California State University Monterey Bay
California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
California State University San Bernardino
California State University San Marcos
Sonoma State University
California State University Stanislaus

Of sourse all of these schools do not have business programs, but most due.

 

I think I might have asked the question incorrectly. Of those you listed below with AACSB accreditation, aren't ALL of those state approved. I would think they would have to be state approved, right? (I must be missing something if not.)

 

Actually, no they are not.

If you look on the BPPVE site, the only listed listed are Cal State Polytechnic - pomona, UC Santa Barbara, UCLA - special services and UC Berkely Extension. All for special programs if I read correctly.

 

Sort of. There are cases when a specialized accreditor's accreditation of a specialized school represents that school's only form of institutional accreditation.

Look at it this way:

An institutional accreditor accredits an entire institution. Most universities offer programs in a multitude of fields, and the institutional accreditation extends across all of them.

Many universities also pursue specialized accreditations. A specialized accreditor concentrates on a specific field and only accredits those programs or departments within a university that fall within its scope. If the AACSB accredits a B-school within a university, that doesn't mean that the university's art department is AACSB accredited. If the art department wanted specialized accreditation, it would have to apply to NASAD. Other fields, like history, biology or philosophy, don't have specialized accreditors at all.

But some specialized schools only offer programs in a single field. In their case, their specialized accreditation might cover everything offered by the whole institution. So (in some cases) this specialized accreditation simultaneously constitutes a school's institutional accreditation. Not every specialized accreditor permits this, but some do. I'd speculate that getting the US Dept. of Education to recognize it requires the specialized accreditor to consider administrative and financial matters that some subject-specific accreditors don't want to get involved with.

For example, the Academy of Art College in San Francisco is a huge (4,000+ students) art school that isn't regionally accredited but is accredited by the National Association of Schools of Art and Design (NASAD). That works because all of its programs are art and design programs. Meanwhile the interior design program within the AAC is also specifically accredited by the Foundation for Interior Design Education and Research (FIDER), the interior design specialized accreditor. (FIDER accreditation is required in order to take the interior design board exams in many states.)

The Musician's Institute in Hollywood gets its primary accreditation from the National Association of Schools of Music (NASM), which more typically accredits music departments within larger universities that have their own institutional accreditation.

Starr King seminary in Berkeley isn't regionally accredited. In this case, its institutional accreditation comes from the Association of Theological Schools (ATS). That works because all it offers are M.Divs.

These are unusual examples, but in some unusual fields accreditation by specialized accreditors is the normal and expected form of accreditation.

Chiropractic colleges are accredited by the Council on Chiropractic Education (CCE). Few of them have regional accreditation. Pretty much all of the oriental medicine schools out there (there are many in California) receive their primary institutional accreditation from the Accrediting Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (ACAOM).

On the other hand, I've never heard of the American Chemical Society, Accrediting Board for Engineering and Technology, the American Psychological Association, the American Bar Association or the American Medical Association providing the primary accreditation for stand-alone schools. They require even specialized schools to be RA before they show any interest.

 

Yes, you are missing something. The schools in the list are RA. You have to distinguish between RA and state approval. Regional accreditation (RA) is not the same as state approval. RA is the gold standard in the United States and state approval in most cases amount to nothing. State approval is not even the bronze standard.

 

That is what I put in my post - state and National, I didn't mention RA, but I see the differences now, thanks to all. I foyu have national, you don't have to get RA or State, just as if you have RA, you don't need state, and if you have state, it is "not even a bronze"

Ike - If RA is gold, is National Platinum ???

Thanks.

 

I'm not Ike but national accreditation (typically meaning DETC) would be silver.