more about Berne Univ.

True. With a "New England Office" and a "St. Kitts office".

Bing

 

Oh, not to mention the fact that RA does not really include DETC. The VA approves many DETC schools, including the gunsmith school which you put me on to.

Bing

 

BTW, I couldn't find anything on the VA's website restricting college eligibility to RA schools. And, yes, they do approve many non-RA post-secondary schools. So I'm confused.

They had a bunch of foreign schools listed, but it was clear they approved those programs (not schools, programs) on a case-by-case basis.

Rich Douglas

 

Oops. I found this:

"(1) The course has been accredited and approved by a nationally recognized accrediting agency or association. "Candidate for accreditation" status is not a basis for approval of a course as accredited." at

 

http://www.vba.va.gov/pubs/38cfr21/s21_4253.htm

Oops, part 2. I "submitted" the message before I was done.

A school wishing to have its eligible students participate in the VA then coordinates that effort with its State Agency. Someone at the school is then appointed as the VA rep, and processes applications.

We looked into this possibility for Heriot-Watt's external MBA program "back in the day," but abandoned it when Dr. Bear sold the marketing rights he held.

Rich Douglas

 

I have to concur with you here. I don't think the NCA consciously tries to become the most DL-friendly accrediting body, but it's rather hard for me to imagine that the NCA would have any problems in principle with a nonresidential Ph.D. if the MSACHE has already accredited one in the form of Touro University International.


Peace,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

The answer is here:
http://www.gibill.va.gov/education/OS_Trng.htm

Pay particular attention to the sections entitled "Note: Independent Study (distance education)" and questions 6 and 7 to foreign schools applying for listing, below that note.

I quoted part of it in my very first post on this thread and it's why I made my 'GAAP' remark.

NCU does not qualify and Berne does, because Berne is accredited by St. Kitts while NCU is only a candidate for accreditation by a DoEducation recognized accreditor.

 

Brought to you by the folks at the "We Don't Need a Centralized System of Higher Education" Department. (USDOE) I hate this stuff.

Rich Douglas

 

The relevant federal law that governs financial aid eligibility seems to be 20 USC 28 section 1002.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/20/1002.html

Sec. 1002 (a)(2) addresses Foreign Schools.

1002 (a)(2)(A) Foreign schools (other than medical schools) are mentioned only in passing. They must have the "equivalent" of US accreditation, and the Secretary of Education is assigned to determine that. There is no specification of how that determination should be made, and I think that the USDoE just defers to the foreign authorities' judgements.

Notice that in section 1002 (a)(2)(B) the Secretary of Education is directed to create a panel of experts to determine if particular foreign accreditation standards are really the equal of those in the US, but these are to be medical experts concerned with off-shore medical schools. There seems to be nothing comparable in other fields.

But there seems to be an interesting problem with the distance education exemption at Sec. 1002 (a)(3). Schools that enroll more than 50% of their students by "correspondence" are specifically excluded from eligibility unless they get a waiver from the Secretary of Education.

On the face of it, that would seem to exclude BOTH NCU and Berne. So how did Berne qualify? The VA is clearly defering to the Department of Education list, which as we know includes Berne. (It has a financial aid number.) Was this a bureaucratic oversight? Or did Berne actually apply for and receive a waiver? Would NCU qualify once (if) it receives full NCA accreditation if it applies for a waiver too?

 

Bill Dayson points out that there seems to be an interesting problem with the distance education exemption at Sec. 1002 (a)(3). Schools that enroll more than 50% of their students by "correspondence" are specifically
excluded from eligibility unless they get a waiver from the Secretary of Education.

Unless (I am fairly confident) the "correspondence" education is done on line, which is not considered "correspondence" according to a law suit won by the Dow, Lohnes law firm 4 or 5 five years ago. This is apparently a rule, not a law -- just as the FTC's mandate to regulate use of the word "accreditation" is a rule, not a law. But my goodness, if they ever chose to enforce that, what a difference it could make.

 

Here's a 1996 article on "Telecommunicated Learning and Federal Financial Aid" by By Michael B. Goldstein on the Dow, Lohnes & Albertson website:
http://www.dlalaw.com/site/page_1.asp?section=4&subsection=3&seqa=0&seqb=0&seqc=0&PgId=496

It begins:

------------------
Kristin Evenson Hirst
DistanceLearn.About.com

 

The United States Code directs the Secretary of Education to make "comparability" determinations of foreign institutions "by regulation". But it doesn't specify how the Secretary should make those determinations. To answer that question, I went searching in the Code of Federal Regulations, and found 34 CFR 600.54 at
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfr-retrieve.html

Sec. 600.54 Criteria for determining whether a foreign institution is eligible to apply to participate in the FFEL programs.
The Secretary considers a foreign institution to be comparable to an eligible institution of higher education in the United States and eligible to apply to participate in the FFEL programs if the foreign institution is a public or private nonprofit educational institution that--
(a) Admits as regular students only persons who--
(1) Have a secondary school completion credential; or
(2) Have the recognized equivalent of a secondary school completion credential;
(b) Is legally authorized by an appropriate authority to provide an eligible educational program beyond the secondary school level in the country in which the institution is located; and
(c) Provides an eligible education program--
(1) For which the institution is legally authorized to award a degree that is equivalent to an associate, baccalaureate, graduate, or professional degree awarded in the United States;
(2) That is at least a two-academic-year program acceptable for full credit toward the equivalent of a baccalaureate degree awarded in the United States; or
(3) That is equivalent to at least a one-academic-year training program in the United States that leads to a certificate, degree, or other recognized educational credential and prepares students for gainful employment in a recognized occupation.

Sounds like what the California BPPVE does.

 

There have been claims in this discussion group that UNESCO/IAU has confirmed the inclusion of MIGS in the CEU institutional details. I am in possession of International Handbook (sixteenth edition) and CEU is listed on page 1436, with no mention of MIGS. Could it be that the updated info will appear in the next edition (2003)?. I note also (may not be of any significance) that CEU is the only Mexican University that does not list "Secrtaria de Educacion Publica" as an accrediting agency/boby.
OTHER UNIVERSITIES:

CCHS - listed on page 2530 (3 lines- and clearly not proud of their DETC accreditation, as it is not mentioned)
TOURO - listed on page 2641
Berne - listed on page 1897 (under Saint Kitts & Nevis - University of the West Indies is listed as the public university, and Berne as the private university)
Union Institute - listed on page 2399
Capella University - listed on page 2351 (3 lines)

listing in the International Handbook carries tremendous weight, as it is quite common to encounter the following (see below). Also, for those of us in international education research, we can attest to the fact that the IHU database is the foundation for other authroized databases.
http://www.barry.edu/ed/hrda/admiss.htm
"International students applying to the doctoral program must hold a master's degree from a recognized college or university and meet the other admission requirements. Students admitted to the Counseling specialization who do not have a Master's Degree in counseling may have to complete 12-24 or more credits of prerequisites.

Recognized institutions are those listed in:

International Handbook of Universities
The World List of Universities
World Education Series of American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admission
Other sources approved by the Office of the Registrar at Barry University
International students must demonstrate proficiency in the English language by submitting a score of at least 500 on the TOEFL or a percentile-equivalent score on other authorized tests."

 

According to a copy of the listing sent to me by UNESCO's agent, the CEU's listing includes a sub-heading for the Virtual Institute, which would be MIGS. (It lists Armando Arias as the President.) She sent that listing before the latest edition of the IHU was published last December, so I guess it could've changed. Still, I didn't hear anything about that. Is that portion of the listing you have in your hands still present?

Rich Douglas