Monster.com: do you/your employer subscribe? Let's make a deal.

Trying to desperately change the subject?

More irrelevant nonsense. That was never part of the discussion. If you would like to make it part of the discussion then please describe the relevance. What I thought we were discussing is your ridiculous assertion that without anyone even being familar with any of the details of a Monster.com contract that John Bear and myself are trying to be thieves. It appears that you're now trying to back pedal from that absurd position. If this is your cowardly way of trying to apologize for your previous insulting statements then I'm sorry, I don't accept your lame apology.

Changing the subject? Smart move since your lies and false accusations have been exposed for the ridiculous nonsense that they are.

So you think it is funny make ridiculous false accusations against others? It seems that you have some severe ethical problems of your own that need to be dealt with.

Let's see, I'm guessing that you're some pathetic degree mill apologists that is upset because your degree or your degree mill has been exposed as a fraud by John Bear. Am I getting close? How about telling us what degree mill it is so we can discuss the real issue that is bothering you.

 

Not only that, he even has the audacity to take the position that John Bear and I knew that it would be impossible to get John Bear that information without stealing. I have categorically denied that I believe that. I provided a reasonable scenario where the information could be made available to John Bear without violating a possible terms of agreement. J.R. then totally ignores that and tries to change the subject.

It appears to me that JR is really upset because he supports some degree mill. He probably is just trying to get revenge by making false accusations against someone that told the truth about his degree mill.

 

Tony: "Maybe I misinterpreted Dr. Bear's intent, but I was under the impression that he wanted to make a deal over the table. "

John: Yes, of course. It never occurred to me to want to do otherwise. My goodness, what an unexpected flurry of hostility.

For the record:

Thing 1: Three years ago, my publisher, a friend of one of the Monster.com founders, approached him with the idea that they could offer an excellent service to their subscribers, by weeding out resumes with 100% fake degrees. We're talking Columbia State here, not Pacific Western, etc.

Thing 2: After Monster decided not to do this, he took it to what was then their major competitor, HotJobs.com Those people were very enthusiastic about the idea, giving them a marketing edge ("The only resume service that...") But then Monster.com bought HotJobs.com

Thing 3: When ABC decided to use Monster.com to find people using totally fake degrees, as I understand it, their lawyers studied the Terms of Service and found no problem. Monster.com is regularly used for research purposes. Sociologists who want to see how many social workers are looking for work in Nebraska. Demographers analyzing average time on a given job by Black women in the 1980s. Labor market analysts seeing how many people are looking for work as a blacksmith. And so on and on and on. The one thing you absolutely can't use Monster for is recruiting people for your headhunting service.

Thing 4: Full access to Monster, of the sort I was hoping to find, would cost me about $24,000 for access. Even if I am one of the 1,000 richest people in the northwest corner of east El Cerrito, that's a bit much for something that is already knowable, although a bit less current, from the 2-years-ago work.

Thing 5: And there still remains a fair chance that the huge diploma selling operation in Romania, with more than 70,000 clients in North America, will ultimately give up its mailing list to authorities. And the authorities are already in possession of the 20,000 client files from Columbia State University. If and when either entity is indicted and goes on trial in the US, these files would probably (based on prior cases) be introduced as evidence, and thus available to the public.

 

Huffman, whats your problem, lighten up man. BTB, I never and I mean never apologise to anyone for any statement that I make.

The next thing is "trying to change the subject" Never crossed my mind.

Huffman, want my take on stealing, well your right (although I never said you or Bear stole anything), it is when you take someone elses property that doesnt belong to you..without permission (does Monster know your personnel may hand over part of the contract to someone else?)

John said, he would glady use someone elses (company or otherwise subscription) now can you deliver, since in John's last post he said its going to cost him $24K.

Come on Bill, help the poor guy out, then I will concede. Ask your personnel for a copy of the contract (shut me down) and/or give the access to John and then work a deal with him. As I said before if you dont want john to have direct access (through your company) then John will probably tell you which resumes that he his looking for?

The story does gets funnier, now your changing the topic to my supporting Degree Mills..you know I never thought of that, I should take you up on this. (smug)

Now. Deliver the goods and give John Bear his access to Monster, even if you have to pay it out of your own pocket, and make sure when you have done this, to inform everyone, so that I can get a hold of Monster and inform them of a non subscriber use.

Given that your a software engineer, and have never downloaded muisc from the internet or copied from CD's?, is this not the same thing..pirating that is..of sort?.

I figured you out Huffman, you make your own statement, after your own personnel's perception it would violate the terms of the agreement...YOU SAID IT MAN..NOT ME. (yeh, I'm shouting). Now do the over the table deal..its your call..right.

Can anyone out there give John Bear what he needs..imple request, simple task. For me I would'nt go near it with a ten foot pole.

J.R(ic)

 

You might want to check this out. Click here.

 

The monster site available for reading by everyone is specific about the terms and conditions. Violation is refered to as unauthorised access as well as giving out passwords to non autorised users. Go figure.


http://about.monster.com/terms/

J.R(ic)

 

Thanks Rich, I always wondered how I could get a hold of one of these, you see I am really cheap, but know Rich has come to my aid and I still would'nt know how to use it.

Another funny remark, you guys are making my day.

J.R(ic)

 

My problem is that you are making false accusations that I was attempting to help someone else steal. This is a ridiculous accussation. In order for you to make this false accusation you LIE that you know it is impossible for John Bear to get this information legally. This is absurd. It is also ridiculous because it presupposes that we are fully aware of the terms of the Monster.com agreement and have chosen to violate the agreement.

I'm not at all surprised that you "never apologise to anyone for any statement that" you make. It is appearing more and more that you're ethically bankrupt. You make false accusations that I'm attempting to steal. Now you admit that you would never apologise!

Now what is your problem? I gave you my theory.

Sorry Mr. Robert's but I'm sure there are many legal and ethical ways to work out that little issue. You have been given multiple examples but have chosen to ignore them. Since you have admitted that you are lacking in character when you stated that you never apologise, I'm not going to give you one iota more personal information on myself or my work.

It's true, perhaps you just like making false accusations against people? So tell me what degree mill that you're associated with. If it is not that then please explain another rational for making these ridiculous accussations.

What? you must be stupid, why would I want to pay thousands of dollars out of my own pocket? You are apparently being irrelevant, again?

Finally addressing the issue! No it is not the same thing. You have been given multiple examples as to how this could be done perfectly legally and ethically and you have chosen to ignore and deny the possibility.

You continue to ignore the rest of that post. Go back and read it again.

Listen JR, you are the pathetic individual that is accussing others of attempting to be thieves. Your only proof to this absurd accussation is that you know that the terms of agreement would make it impossible and that you know that John Bear and I were fully aware that said terms would make it impossible. You are so far out on a limb on this one that even a sparrow's weight would break off the limb. You also say that you never apologise, which I think fits in well with the character of a man that likes to make false accusations based on nothing more than his own bloated ego.

 

From the monster terms and conditions which you said I had no idea about and then you say I knew all along, quote Monster says:

"No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use".

"You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Terms of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of any TMP Site."

Now Bill, if you or your company give access to someone else, sure it violates the terms and conditions of Monster..stealing?..how do we get around this problem?

Lie: I cant do that, I dont the meaning of the term. and about what..did I lie somewhere?

False accussations: say what, explain yourself. Oh you mean the stealing thing..never said you stole anything..or did you?

Information about Mr Huffman: I am not one bit interested in you personally.

Legal & Ethical ways to work out these issues: I'm not sure what your talking about..please tell me how you would work out these issues and get John his access, legally, ethically and morally without breaking the terms and conditions of your company contract with Monster.

Pathetic I am, Bloating..I am, Ego..not as big as yours, Thousand of Dollars from you to give John his access (you are stupid as you said), falling for my statement on this, but then again do you not have a friend in him and dont you have something to barter?, and I am irrelevent as a person. This is a discussion board, or have you not figured it out yet?

Final comment to you..Huffman, quoted by you:

"Listen JR, you are the pathetic individual that is accussing others of attempting to be thieves. Your only proof to this absurd accussation is that you know that the terms of agreement would make it impossible and that you know that John Bear and I were fully aware that said terms would make it impossible. You are so far out on a limb on this one that even a sparrow's weight would break it off"

A sparrow I am, watching you sqwirm. Deliver the access to John, legally, morally and for free, barter or money.

What is your issue all along..personal character, I'd say, now YOU go and read John's First post..simple exercise.

By then you will say, Yeh, I cant deliver what John was asking for.

J.R(ic)

 

You are the one that claimed you knew what was in the contract without ever reading it when you said that no contract would ever allow John Bear to get the information he desired. I have said multiple times that I didn't believe your baseless assertion on this matter.

You have been given multiple examples that would be a completely legal and ethical arrangement that you have continued to ignore. Let me give a couple of them to you, again.

1. A person working for the company that has the contract with Monster.com does the queries into the Monster.com database and gives Dr. John Bear the summary information that he wanted.

2. The company could contract with Dr. John Bear to provide them with some summary information that they desire. For example, give the Human Resource department an estimate of the percentage of PhD resumes on Monster.com that are from unaccredited schools.

Now there's two very reasonable ways that John Bear's request could be satisfied while still being perfectly legal and ethical. No matter what the Monster.com contract is likely to say. (Ignoring for the moment that apparently lawyers have studied the contract and felt that it was a perfectly legal use to allow direct access to a third party for summary analysis purposes.) You accused him and me of trying to be thieves. You owe us an apology. However, you have stated that you never apologize for anything you say. It appears that you are caught in a dilemna of your own fabrication. What shall you do?

You made false statements when you accused people in this thread of attempting to steal. You made false statements when you claimed that no contract would allow John Bear to get the information he desired from a third party. You said that we were attempting to steal which is extra ridiculous because it presupposes that we intended to violate the contract with Monster.com which I'm not even familar with.

Then stop telling me to spend thousands of dollars of my own money and stop telling me that I have to tell you about future communications that I may or may not have with my employer.

Others and I have already given you examples, you continue to ignore them. Plus you continue to ignore John Bear's statement that lawyers have previously studied it and felt that it wouldn't violate the agreement to allow a third party direct access for the purposes of summary analysis.

I'm not able to parse that. It apparently has something to do with you being confused how I noticed your bloated ego. (I guess another less likely possibility is that you were just trying to mimick Yoda's speech patterns?)

I noticed your bloated ego because you claim to know the mind of others in comments you made like, "John B knew exactly what he was asking when he did his post." or "this says it all and you and Bear would gladly take someones Monster subscription"

Also the statement by John Bear that the lawyers looked at it and it didn't violate the terms of agreement to allow direct third party access for summary analysis and the fact that reasonable arrangements have been described to you and you continue with your ridiculous assertion that people are trying to engage in stealing. Sure looks like bloated ego to me. Ignoring all the evidence and sticking to your ridiculous statements sure seems to indicate a bloated ego. Stating that it is impossible for you to lie or that you never apologize for anything you've ever said also seems to be an admission that your bloated ego is a life long problem.

You keep trying to equate no one providing the information to John Bear with proof that it would be illegal. You are wrong about that also. That argument seems to suggest either desperation on your part or plain stupidity.

I have given you multiple ways that it could be done legally and ethically. John Bear has stated that lawyers studied the contract and felt that the Monster.com contract allowed third party direct access for purposes of summary analysis. You were wrong to accuse people of attempting to steal. You owe me an apology. I believe that you owe John Bear an apology as well. You have admitted that you're not man enough to ever apologize for anything you say. Which means to me that you're a man lacking in character. That being the case, I don't expect nor care whether you will ever seek to cleanse your own conscience on this matter. You're a real piece of work, JR, it has been a real pleasure raking you over the coals for your ridiculous accusations. Thanks for the chuckles.

Note: I'm saying goodbye to JR because I expect him to slink off with his tail beteen his legs at this point. (Okay I admit that it may indicate a bit of a bloated ego on my part to assume that, but it was fun.)

P.S. JR, why don't you just tell us which degree mill you're associated with. I must admit that you now made me curious.

 

Bill, your right it was fun along the way, but you bore me. I think the words used on Monster's terms and conditions of use was 'Infringement' (encroach).

BTW, did you read the terms and conditions of use published by Monster on their website?

As for that Diloma Mill question, you have a curious question, I just thought of a name that you may or may not be familiar with..will NCR..do it for you.

Apropos, now in the words of the spice girls..Stop right now, thank you very much, I need somebody with a human touch, Hey you always on the run, Gotta slow down baby, gotta have some fun.

You appear to be an angry man, big chip on his shoulders, that hides behind something or someone, lighten up.

BTW, no more responses, you already said your goodbyes to me, with your address to sparrows, coals, tails, plain stupidity and all.

Still waiting to hear though if John got his buy, beg, borrow or barter to monster.

Now I am totally emancipated from you. Down to a good book, dark room and the Hockey game.

J.R(ic)

 

Yipee! a degreeInfo flame thread that has lasted to the second page. Sure I can't entice you, JR, into stretching it to a third page?

Yes I read them. I didn't see the part that indicated anything you said was true though.

So it appears that you lied when you said you weren't interested in my personal life. You actually did a little research into my personal life. I'm not surprised. Anyone that is capable of making ridiculous false accusations that others are thieves and then makes it clear that they never apologize for anything they ever say is probably also a big liar. You are also apparently into attempting subtle threats. I'm not surprised about that either. Listen though JR, let's just chaulk the following up to my bloated ego. Unethical degenerates such as yourself don't scare me, you amuse me.

You have apparently forgotten, you are the one that called me a thief. I just took the golden opportunity to have some fun and try to point out how utterly ridiculous you were/are being. I guess we can now add hypocrite to your other demonstrated attributes.

You know, JR, you're not helping me get my bloated ego under control. I predicted that you were going slink away like a crippled dog that's on the bottom rung of the pack's social ladder. You could have proven me wrong and shown a little self respect by apologizing for making your false accusations. I guess I should thank you for proving me right but I won't bother.

What degree mill are you associated with? If that isn't the case then, why did you attack John Bear (and me) with your ridiculous false accusations?

 

John,

I wonder what happened also. Was it the gentle rebuke (in a different thread) that sent you over the edge? I rather enjoyed your earlier posting, but come on man, it seems you are walking the bleeding edge of sanity.

Tony

 

OK, I will admit to one thing, and that is, as suggested by Huffman that "I am an 'Hypnotist' oh..oh or should I have said "Hypocrite", thats what you called me wasnt it?

You are amusing, which is better than funny, it must be that time of year..and talking about that, do you know how many times in this thread you have used on me the words..accusations, lies, apologies, false, statements, the list goes on..on..and on.

You know Bill as Myoptimism noted "I am walking the bleeding edge of sanity" thats me, I admit 'totally insane'. But your references in this post have put me back on the straight and narrow of total emancipation.

But dont go away, we have lots too discuss on this and other threads in the furture..looking forward to a new and uniteresting dialogue with you there.

BTW, my favorite Bill Huffman words posted by him and used in his responses to me in this thread are..."Lies, Accusations, Apolologize and True", right, right, right, thats you Bill.

Come on Huffman, lets take it to page 3 before the end of 2002, it could be my malevolent gift from you to me for the new year, and will toast to your health.

Bill, do you think John will get his access to monster on the terms and conditions of his post before year end?..let the thread know when you know.

J.R(ic)

 

Well Mr. Roberts you can't seem to make up your mind, do you think I'm boring or amusing? One thing is safe to say, I don't think you've enjoyed having someone point out the ridiculousness of your silly accusations.

Mr. Robert's, I see two likely motivations on your part that got you into your "mess". One, you have an overwhelming hatred of Dr. John Bear probably for exposing your associated degree mill as a fraud. Two, you just simply initially posted without thinking and then got trapped by a flaw in your own character that wouldn't allow you to admit that you were wrong. For your own self improvement, I'd like to suggest that you reread your first few posts in this thread and try to appreciate how big of a jerk you were being. Perhaps then you will be better able to deal with your personal issues that need to be addressed.
______________________________________
Just consider this break in the flaming a public service announcement. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

John Roberts: "...Bill, do you think John will get his access to monster on the terms and conditions of his post before year end?..let the thread know when you know."

John Bear: And why would Bill know that? Thankfully, most people who simply have something to say/offer do so privately by E-mail or even the old-fashioned electric telephone. At the present pace of an only slightly-arthritic snail, the book called Degree Mills will be out in the spring of 2004, and all will be known.