Military--degrees that help for OTS

I find this thread interesting and amusing.

Before providing my thoughts on this subject, I would like to paint a picture of my background. I enisted in the Navy in 1969 and advaned to Chief Personnelman (E-7). In 1980, I applied and was commissioned as a Ensign (0-1E) in the Limited Duty Officer (LDO) Program in the field of Administration. I then served 15 years as an officer for a total of 26 years of active duty. Presently, I work for the Board for the Correction of Naval Records as a Navy civilian federal employee.

Since I have been on both sides, enlisted and officer, I think that I am somewhat qualified to provide some perspective on this subject.

Enlisted personnel that are qualified for a commissioning program should consider it only if they want to have increased authority and responsibility and not perceived "perks." I know that when I went from E-7 to 0-1, the responsbility and authority increased significantly. My experience was that although I received a little more pay and some additional "perks" as an officer and that some enlisted people seem so jealous of, I had to work longer and harder than as an enlisted person.

So, my advice to anyone wanting to become an officer. Be prepared for a shock. Its a lot tougher. If anyone says differently than they have not taken the walk. Finally, i think that a majority of officers and their spouses attempt to do the right thing. I agree that there are some spouses that think that they are wearing the rank of their husband or wife. However, I still think they are in the minority. Bottom line, do not apply for a commission for the 'perks' or even the money. Apply for a commission if you want to make a difference.

All the best,

Fred

 

I guess that most were smart enough to stay in the background. The few trying to prove something perpetuated the "Lt. Fuzz" image.

Or "ring knockers." The strangest I encountered was a 1st Lt. out of VMI. I'd tell ya 'bout it but you wouldn't believe me.

 

This thread is really interesting. One thing that is standing out for me is the great difference between a large, rapidly mobilizing (snafued, in other words) Army and the Army that settles in during times of relative peace.

Returning to the States from Nam, I went to a company at the then Camp A.P. Hill in Virginia. Near zero discipline in that company. Found out why they left us alone when I saw the mock POW camp they ran for captured Engineering OCS Candidates. UCMJ? They didn't need no stinkin' UCMJ.

Came across a website for my old Nam unit and joined its mailing list. Most posting were officers who clearly thought that everything had been A-OK over there and that everyone had gotten along just fine.

Then one EM broke the ice in saying that a soldier had died (they named a "Bailey" bridge after him) because of the incompetence of the leaders and the drunkedness of the NCOs. For a time, all hell broke loose as other EM had their say. That after a lapse of thirty five years

 

Just for the record, my "dark side" remark was intended as a good natured jab.

A comment which I now regret making, due to the direction in which it apparently steered this tread.

This type of comment is typical good natured ribbing between Navy CPO's and LDO/CWO's, I even used the same words in welcoming Mustang to degreeinfo.

As a Chief Personnelman, I have worked for many mustangs. I assisted many others prepare the applications which led to their commissions.

FYI: The Navy is the only service in which a person can go from E-6 (Petty Officer First Class) to O-6 (Captain). Interestingly a college degree is neither required nor necessarily desired for a Sailor to be selected Limited Duty Officer or Chief Warrant Officer.

 

Charles

I am not sure about the other services, but I think most enlisted respect officers that came up from the ranks. The reason I wrote my comments are to show some of the readers that becoming an officer does not mean your life will become easier. Often times, it will become tougher despite the fact that you might make a little more money and be able to live in better quarters on base.

All the best,

Fred

 

Unless you live in the system you can't understand it. I live it every day. Yes it does come from both angles. Enlisted and Officer but that is to be expected. As the previous person mentioned it is the feudal system still alive and well. Only in the military can you tell someone that they have to live on a particular side of base. Can you imagine doing that in the civilian world? Just because we are enlisted does not mean that we can't afford a nice house. How much money you have depends more on how much you spend, not how much you make. We have no car payments, no bills and if they charged rent for the houses on base we could afford to probably live in one of the nicer houses while I know a lot of officers who are strapped down with debt and couldn't afford to live there if they had to pay rent. In the civilian world you can't refuse to sell a house to someone based on their occupation. If they can buy it, they can live there. In the military however it is the opposite. It is one of the only places left where you can blatantly discriminate against people. For example, there are 2 clubs on base...enlisted and officer. The officer's club is nice, the enlisted one is a piece of crap. The system is what it is. It sounds sweet to say that we should all just get along but if you live in the system 24 hours a day you will see that the system has a mind of its own. You can't change it. You can only learn to live with it.

 

OT

Minor point...

First, the military has changed significantly in the last several decades. The attitudes and actions that were accepted in the 70's would not pass muster today.

Secondly, the separation between officers and enlisted is a given. However, each of the military services has different degrees of separation. For example, the Air Force is slowly doing away with different clubs for officers and enlisted, but a typical Navy base has a separate club for junior enlisted, Chiefs, and Officers.

 

My wife was in Navy medicine for 20 years, retiring as a chief Hospital Corpsman. She had a fair amount of sea duty, including two tours as the IDC on an island and two destroyers.

Perhaps the Navy in general or Navy medicine in particular is different, but after I showed her this thread, she said that she did not experience nearly the degree of snobbery or ill-will from either the officer ranks or officer spouses as mentioned by others. She said that particularly in after-hours social functions, the senior enlisted and the officers mixed as social peers.

She mentioned only one officer that communicated the impression that enlisted were scum. As it turned out, that same officer, a lieutenant commanding the the deck division, changed his tune in regards to her when he suffered urinary retention and needed a catheterization while at sea. My wife, of course, was the person who did it. He was most pleasant to her for the rest of her tour.

She did her BSc in the Navy and finished her MHA after retirement, all paid for by the government.

Regards,

Michael Lloyd
Mill Creek, Washington USA

 

I don't know - I think it depends on the person.

I knew LT's that were not liked, and I knew LT's that were mistaken for the troop commander.

Depends on a lot of variables.

QUOTE]Originally posted by me again
Being a private is worse.

I've been a private and a lieutenant; and being a lieutenant was a lot better.

And yes, there is a lot of snobbery in the Army. It's a different world in there. [/QUOTE]

 

There is a differentiation between officers & enlisted (includes noncom's). Even with degrees enlisted are often seen in a different light. This is not by any means universal & years ago the difference used to be much greater.

However here are some of the remarks I have heard:

i) NCO's moved into the neighborhood (in Germany) and their trashy kids ruined it.

ii) Yes the MSG (E-8) buffs floors but that is an enlisted man's job to buff officers floors and empty their garbage. There is a division between labor & management. It is the order of things.

iii) Warrant Officers are E-6's with club cards (O'Club).

iv) Well what can you expect, he used to be enlisted.

This is not universal but it happens. Used to be much worse though.

North

 

I was accepted into Air Force OTS based upon my USNY (Excelsior's predecessor) degrees. But that was long ago.

I saw peers accepted into technical positions based upon degrees from the same school.

It is best to check with your local Air Force recruiting squadron for the current details. They'll describe them; if Excelsior's program looks like a fit, it should be okay. It all depends on the Air Force's current requirements.