MBA vs MS Management

I mean each member of the search commitee was given a stack of resumes to "rank" from HR. The search committee members (mostly faculty) did not rank resumes with Capella Master's/PhD's very highly. And this is a fact of life a candidate has to deal with. OTOH, NSU degree's were considered not "great" but "OK".

Similar comments in the CHE.

I'd guess that Capella's would be OK for a "check the block" government position.

 

HR provided each member of the search committee with a stack of resume responses.

1. Most resumes were really badly done. One candidate even said "Columbia" instead of "Roosevelt".

2. The committee members “rank” each resume based on objective (do they meet the NCA requirements) and subjective (what do I think they bring to the table?) criteria. My observation was that Capella and Union Institute Master’s/PhD’s were not were not ranked highly. NSU degree’s were “OK” – not good not bad – a neutral.

3. As to whether it’s “fair” or not – it’s a fact of life a candidate has to deal with. Interestingly, candidates with “real word” experience (determined by IT certifications) were an additional plus – provided the academic qualifications were in place. This is a bit of a departure from previous searches and was based on the perception that the students are not shy about asking about instructor qualifications.

 

Re: MBA

I tend to agree. I'm thinking of going back to Heriot Watt to finish MBA after finishing my PhD in organizational studies at Tilburg U.
I found the MBA courses at HW very practical/ usable. I met another guy recently (wuth a PhD in organizational psych); he told me he widened his view with MBA courses.
Earon

 

This "stack ranking" looks like Capella and NSU were not ranked very high due primarily to DL prejudice and nothing else.

 

Jim,

It is interesting that you note:

"I'd guess that Capella's would be OK for a "check the block" government position."

The government does not employ academic snobbery in positive education standards but rather counts on the accreditors to set standards. It is a shame that your comment evokes this concept.

Your comment also is an insult to all the scientists that work for organizations like DARPA, NASA, NIST, and other areas (including the military) of the government who have superior academic credentials and certainly did not consider they were checking the box.

And, only a few positions have any positive academic qualification beyond a high school diploma. Many of these require additional certification ( PE, RA, etc..).

Please elaborate if I have missed the point.

Kevin

 

Jim,

I've dealt with biased situations like the one you've described in the past.

When I was recruited by AT@T Bell Labs as a technician it felt like a huge accomplishment. Employees were constantly told they only hire the best. There were technicians there that graduated from fully accredited b&m schools with BSEE, BSME degrees (some with 4.0 gpa's) all earned at night. It was a major problem that they did there degree at night. Due to this it was near impossible to be promoted to MTS, even if you completed a masters (again p/t evening). A sample of schools that they looked down on were Fairleigh Dickinson, New Jersey Institute of Technology, and Stevens Institue of Technology. They would hire new grads from these schools if they had attended fulltime, but these MTS's (engineers) usually were given the lesser tasks because many new hires were from MIT, DUKE, Cooper Union, Harvard, etc. I left shortly after I graduated from Fairleigh Dickinson due to the bias. After my departure there hiring and promotion criteria changed.

I'm sure that many firms are still degree centric, but many are not. After I left AT&T Bell Labs my career skyrocketed. During the next 16 years my income rose from ~30K to well over six figures mostly due to my experience and work ethics. The type of degree or where I obtained it almost never a factor. As Dr Dave said in an earlier post "Thus, the decision would be more multi-faceted than focused on education alone".

Lastly, the bias works both ways. There have been times when candidates with PhD's from b&m schools, some from academia, applied for positions that I or a colleague had open. Here there education and attitude was a negative factor.

 

Academic Snobbery

Fed, Though I agree, that in a perfect world, it would be nice to say all schools are alike, the world does not see it that way. I have opted for the AACSB route, not becuase I am a snob and think other schools are not as "good", but because I live in reality and know that there are certain doors that will close if I didn't.

In government, there seems to be a set number of rules, and the evaulations are not as subjective than in industry. This can be a good and a bad thing. To meet a requirement, Harvard and Chico State would both meet the reuqirement, but in "industry" it would be considered more than meeting a requirement.

In some cases with government positions, if the job calls for a bachelor's degree, and someone holds a Master's, they have no advantage, though it can be pretty safe to say the Master's would help in a degreed job.

I know your point, and I am not trying to argue with it, just say that I have been told I am a snob for only going AACSB, comments like "RA is not good enough for you". That is not the case, just trying to deal with reality in my situation.

 

Han,

my point is not that AACSB or any noteworthy accreditation isn't differentiating. It certainly is, in every sense of the word. And you are correct about the difference in options. I would not dispute that a degree from any number of renowned institutions is more merit worthy and deserved of consideration. Assuming degree is the only criteria.

My point is that one can not categorically say that any degree will check a block or that somehow the government only looks for the blocks checked. Not so, the government also wants the best and the brightest, unfortunately in the government we must be more objective in an effort to allow other persons an opportunity. The government can not function like a business in this regard, nor can we function in the manner Jim describes exists in Academia. However, in government positions that require a positive academic degree, very often additional requirements are used, for example, graduating from an ABET accredited school for engineers.

Keep in mind that the government is supposed to be reflective of its society. Not everyone in this society graduates from Harvard, or even a B&M school. (although on another thread Harvard is taking a beating)

(The ABET requirement draws flack from applicants.)

As for meeting a requirement, you are correct. However, additional academic standing does carry weight all other things being equal. Hence the issue with buying degrees to bolster one's application. The humor is that very few Senior Executive Service positions require a degree.

I don't take personal issue with the realities of lesser viewed degrees or schools only that these are somehow block checkers for the government. Not true.

I don't view any positions contrary to my own as arguing (in the negative sense). Nor do I view you trying to pursue the correct instituion/accreditation for your needs as snobbery. As Dr. Douglas has pointed out, utility is a key measure of a degree. I do view the categorical throwing out of someone's credentials based upon school as "academically unacceptable" as snobbery. Unless this school is not accredited or a sham. Capella is neither.

Good luck on your pursuit.

 

Very well said, now a days, a well thought out, articulate, and meaningful post, especially when differences may occur is rare..... thanks for the interaction!!!!

 

Please pay close attention.

I have met VERY few career govt employees that I considered to be "above average" in terms of accomplishments.

 

Correct reading of my comment was "Capella and Union".

I don't think it's a "DL" prejudice - it's a "rigor" perception. Like Union's accreditation problems - that's not a "DL" issue - it's a "rigor" issue.

Frankly, a "bottom fishing" mentality is not welcomed at most non-governmental schools.

 

Jim,

Since we may be evaluating accomplishment by a different standard I will agree to disagree. The nature of the service does lend itself to mediocrity in mass. My term is sheeple.

 

Jim,

The hiring body you are referring to is a school?

 

Jim,

can you name a DL program (Masters, PhD) that would be acceptable under the screening criteria which you describe?

Kevin

 

So with if someone had a degree they completed by distance learning, but the degree was from a very well respected B&M institution like University of London or Boston University?



Would your company have any problems accepting their degree then?



Bo

 

Clearly, there is a perception that DL institutions or degrees are less rigorous or are inferior. For example, yesterday when I suggested to someone that she pursue a Masters degree via DL, she got a look of disgust on her face and she spontaneously said, ”I want to get a legitimate Masters degree and I want nothing to do with DL universities.” Her candor caught me off guard, but it accurately reflects the common perception of many people.

 

Currently the perception that DL degrees are inferior does exist, but haven't we always dealt with the "mine is better than yours" mentality before?

From my previous post I discussed my experiences at the former AT&T Bell Labs where part time studies were considered inferior to fulltime. That has changed. In fact Lucent is partnered with schools like Capella to provide direct payment for employees.

I believe that what you get out of an education is equal to how much effort you put in. I've seen many students put more effort into cheating than into actual studying including obtaining exam questions, copying labs or have others write them, and write cheat sheets. Two of the most creative cheaters I knew maintained 4.0 gpa's. I never had a 4.0 gpa, but my 3.2 was all mine and I worked hard for it.

My preference is to pursue a masters DL degree. I do not care to leave work and embark on a second commute to school, nor do I care to listen to naysayers whose opinion I feel will be disproved in the future.

 

MBAs are normally more flexible for a career change. You might have an MBA in Finance and later on work in Human resources and nobody is going to question your degree.

MBAs are also made for non-business majors so if you have already a business degree an M.Sc can give you more specialized knowledge instead of getting the same undergraduate courses packaged as MBA courses.


M.Sc is a much more specialized degree but less flexible when it comes to switching careers.

On the other hand, MBAs are 10 cents a dozen and having one doesn't really add too much to your resume unless you have an undergraduate in a non business field or your MBA is from a top school.

 

I don't think that Capella is a bad school. I think this is an issue of statistics, a highly reputable school would only accept into a PhD program a student who is already brilliant. They normally look for high GPA, research experience, etc while Capella normally accepts the average Joe student. No matter how good Capella is, it won't be able to compete with high reputable school because they are DL and this means "Flexible" willing to take a student that normally cannot attend a full time PhD because issues like "low GPA", not getting scholarship, no financing, time and so on.

I have a friend who scored a perfect 4.0 GPA from India in his master's degree and got a full scholarship from Carnegie Mellon and now he is teaching at a top University.

I'm pretty sure that if he had the opportunity to do it at Capella for free he would be still teaching at a top school only because the guy is already brilliant.

 

Exactly the same thing happens at Cont Ed schools. If you get your degree though Cont Ed, there is the perception that you did not work as hard even if it is from the same school that offers the same day program.

One school that I know, goes to the extreme of not accepting credits earned from its own Cont Ed towards a degree in the day program. Same school and same degree.

Even as a teacher, if your experience is in Cont Ed, it is normally looked down by the snobby professors becuase they think that Cont Ed schools take anyone to teach. I have the same issue as a teacher of online courses, prospect employers at traditional universities think it is a joke and normally is not taken into consideration as a teaching experience.