Maria Butina

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Kizmet, Jul 18, 2018.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  2. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    It's not. It would be if there was collusion but minus the collusion there's no collusion.

    Uhh...colluding to do what?
     
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    col·lu·sion
    kəˈlo͞oZHən/
    noun
    noun: collusion
    1. secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.
      "the armed forces were working in collusion with drug traffickers"
      synonyms: conspiracy, connivance, complicity, intrigue, plotting, secret understanding, collaboration, scheming
      "there had been collusion between the security forces and paramilitary groups
    Well, she's under lock and key and will likely have a damning story to tell. I can wait.
     
  4. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Da! Heer iss big colluski Scott Walker:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    If you really believe that there's nothing to the story/allegations/arrest the you wouldn't feel the need to make bad jokes and speak in broken English. In any case, it's of no consequence because she will almost certainly be interested in making a deal
     
  7. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    What do you expect to come out of that deal?
     
  8. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    The newspaper story makes it sound like this woman is some kind of gun-rights activist from Russia who cultivated contacts with various gun-rights groups in the US.

    She's apparently being charged with failure to register as a representative of a foreign government, as a "foreign agent" in that sense. (It typically doesn't mean 'spy', it more often means 'lobbyist'.)

    It will be interesting to see what evidence supposedly indicates that she was an agent of the Russian government. The prosecution will need to demonstrate that the Russian government controlled her actions, and that might be a hard case to make.

    I'm not an attorney either, but I believe that apart from anti-trust law, 'collusion' isn't a crime in US federal law.

    You might be thinking of 'criminal conspiracy', but that requires that the conspirators were plotting to commit some crime.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  9. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  10. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  11. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    That is, of course, 100% untrue. You can probably figure out why that is on your own.
     
  13. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    In real life, 'espionage' has a legal definition. Generally speaking, it's about collecting and transmitting defense information to foreign powers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-37

    Section 798 expands it to any unauthorized release of classified information to unauthorized persons.

    (Just think how many times a New York Times story has begun "according to top secret documents...")
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    OK, a 'gun rights activist' in Russia who is not under investigation for 'extremism' but instead cultivates contacts in US (not just with NRA but also with top Republicans through NRA) is a friggin' spy. Don't pretend Russia is not a KGB mafia state and that it can have independent but well financed activists. Her handler (Troshin) is a wealthy person with high but peripheral positions in Russian government. In other words, a Putin proxy for delicate missions. Do you think there can be a "Russian gun rights group" seeking contacts with the NRA that is not an intelligence front? Really?
     
  15. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Butina would not, in anything I've read, meet that definition.
     
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, details will always be hard to come by. But you'd expect that wouldn't you? I mean how could you reasonably expect to access to the kind of inside info that would lead to the arrest of a spy? I'm guessing it's more like an Al Capone thing where he gets arrested/jailed on tax charges but the real story is in the background. I imagine it will all come out in the end.
     
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    They put that amendment first for good reason.
     
  18. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  19. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  20. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    The reporter screwed up.
    More interestingly, the guy right up front of this picture is Ambassador Sergei Kisliak, who is like a Platonian ideal of a "Russian spy". He barely even hides. Thanks for reminding us Trump brought these people into the Oval Office, and shared highly classified intel with them (forcing Israelis to extract their deep cover agent in ISIS. Gee thanks.)
     

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