Regarding Senator Sanders - I roll my eyes and say WHATEVER. He also travelled to the Soviet Union when it was the Evil Empire. As to Empire. Have you given much thought as to why, though lovely woman she is, your unelected head of state, New Zealand's too, along with so many other shit holes does not even live in her Dominion of Canada. I am in no way convinced that nationalized healthcare has any advantage over the healthcare enjoyed by most working Americans.
Lots and lots of signs near the Southern border for medical services offered by Mexican providers to Americans with money.
I don't have to think about it. The UK is her home and the British Royal Family has lived there for hundreds of years. Let her reside where she pleases. I respect her Majesty... but she don't run my life. Not since 1867, anyway. I don't resent paying respects - she's MY Queen anyway. Even after 70 good years in Canada I'm still officially -on paper - a Brit. My choice and certainly not because I regard Canada as a "shithole." I don't - It's been very good to me - and I worked hard and tried to be good to it. Now I'm being rewarded. This is not a bad country to be OLD in. Not at all. I think you're just trying to be insulting, Mr. Fout. There's a remedy for that. Click. Ignore. Done.
Some drive to Mexico to get dental or medical treatment because they can't afford it were they reside. And sometimes pay dearly for that.
It's not really anyone's business, but I do belong to a church. One that actually preaches that Christians should do what Jesus said to do in the Bible (care for the poor, the sick, those on the fringes of society). Sadly, this is considered a radical leftist agenda by a lot of so-called mainstream American Christians. I did not want any accusations of being bitter because I couldn't make it in the US. I owned a home. I'd rather rent abroad than own another home in the US. I cannot drive. And it's clear that you've never had to deal with the lack of a car. I've noticed a lot of Americans tend to think this way. I don't know why, though. I've gotten way better medical care abroad than I could afford in the US. The wait times are shorter, too! If your choices are nothing or nationalized (but maybe you wait a week for an appointment), I'm not sure why anyone would choose nothing. Certain kinds of nationalized medicine suck, sure. NHS is terrible, but most sensible Brits agree that it's because the government has been raiding the NHS coffers because the poors don't deserve medicine (greatly simplified explanation, but that's what it boils down to). In the US, there is no nationalized medicine because the poors don't deserve healthcare. It's the same "conservative" hogwash in both countries. The actual liberal countries are doing just fine with nationalized healthcare, TYVM. Some Americans can be nice. But, for the nation as a whole, it's all a facade. If you don't care for those who are down on their luck, are you really kind or generous? I don't think so.
As far as dental goes - thousands of people go to save 50% to 75% of what it costs in US. Some need the savings, for others it's just a plus - yacht needs a new propeller, etc. I don't mean to advertise in the forum, but this article explains quite a bit - apparently, you're very safe if you know where to go. That's where firms like this one come in. I suppose you have to check your guide out carefully, too. https://beyondbordersdental.com/50-things-you-should-know-about-getting-dental-work-in-mexico/ Probably the same principles apply to medical treatment. You have to find a trusted source - and you save a lot of money.
People not near the Mexican border would possibly save more money by flying to Croatia and having dental work done there. Croatia has a lot of dental tourism and the dentists there are both very good and cheap. I've heard it's common even for Europeans who have dental coverage at home to visit Croatia because of how good it is.
Thank you for the 'sour grapes' clarification. I completely misconstrued what you were saying. Sorry, I jumped to the conclusion that you were suggesting I was suffering from a bout of sour grapes. The irony ( to me) is earlier yesterday, I was daydreaming today of attempting a backyard vineyard. So I actually already had grapes, or the lack there if, on my mind. My previous attempt at growing grapes was a total failure. This time around, I intend to invest a great deal of time researching and planning before my shovel hits the ground. My disdain of nationalized medicine is real. Certainly my opinion, as I am not a medical professional, not anything even close. However, in my mind, Certain dear relatives would receive substantially better medical treatment were they living in the U.S. Croatia certainly is one of the nicer ones. I would be lying if I ever said a bad word about any Croatian I've ever met.
Indeed, Canada's system is not perfect either but relative to the US it is incredible. This is a bit of "Thank God for Mississippi", where even though Canada ranks far behind many European nations in healthcare, it looks good by comparison. I love Canada's single payer system but don't actually know if it would would work in the US, given how entrenched the insurance system is now. I'd love to see a public option at least, which if capitalism is to be believed, should increase competition and lower costs for everyone. In a similar vein, I don't want Canada's gun control laws to be loosened but I also don't think a blanket import of them makes sense in the US context where for tens of millions of people (like me) one or two Sherriff's Deputies are patrolling an area of 600 square miles at any given time, and 911 response time can be 30 minutes or more.
So did Donald Trump: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215842/ "In 1987, a young real estate developer traveled to the Soviet Union. The KGB almost certainly made the trip happen." What's your point?
Defensive much? Personal note: I was actually laid off from a job right after company's Christmas party and within days from birth of my daughter. Having my single-payer coverage intact saved me from a lot of stress. Thanks God from Ontario Health Insurance Plan, and oh BTW, God save HM the Queen (who in addition to being our Sovereign, also was my gracious employer for about 5 years). Interesting how you brag about HEALTH coverage system where you need to be HEALTHY enough to work in order to have coverage. I am utterly convinced that the US is the best country to live; at the same time, the so called health care "system" y'all have is an embarrassment and a disgrace. I had way better experience with my OHIP card than with my current, supposedly fairly decent, plan from the TAMU system.
Let me have a stab: the point is both Sanders and Trump displayed too much naivete to be President? Sanders traveled to USSR in the late 80ies. Sheesh, by that time, there were enough cracks in the communist façade you needed to be blind not to see them. Two things stroke me from that story: first, upon return, he and his wife waxed rhapsodic about free community centers and amateur theater regular workers all volunteered to participate in. The term for this is "samodeyatel'nost'", and any real Soviet person would have told him it wasn't really all that voluntary. Also, it was all for show; again, russian term is "pokazukha". What was even more cringy was a video of him bonding with the hotel and travel staff over food and drinks. Real worker class solidarity, singing leftist songs, in perfect harmony. What he didn't seem to know is that everyone at that table, as an employee of the Inturist travel agency, reported directly to the KGB. Again, it was common knowledge in USSR that anyone working with foreigners (especially high-worth marks, like Mayor Sanders and high profile businessman Trump), from maids to prostitutes, were KGB moles; all of them. There's simply no other way. My father traveled to Soviet Bloc countries as part of amateur basketball teams; even there, a KGB mole was mandatory. In short neither of these guys were serious enough to run the country. #StillWithHer.
Single payer is not "magically better". It's just better that what you have. You don't really have coverage until it's universal coverage. Also, it's nice to have employers compete by providing chiropractic, massage therapy and naturopath coverage, as basic health is automatically covered. A plan I had that my public service union negotiated was terrific; the one I had from a major bank was not bad either.
I think a lot of people don't realize that, even with single-payer, the system can be set up to allow you to go outside of the state insurance as a private payer. And/or you can get extra or private insurance to cover things that regular insurance might not cover. Oh, and visiting the doctor still winds up being cheaper even if you don't have insurance for some reason. I needed to have a covid test done because of possible covid symptoms (negative, thankfully!). My insurance stuff hadn't arrived, so they sent me a bill. The entire out-of-pocket office visit cost less than a lot of insurance co-pays in the US. Without American insurance, it probably would've been at least 4-5x as much if I had seen an American doctor for a similar visit. My current doctor has a price-sheet hanging up in the entrance. I'm not entirely sure who it's for. But the prices are astoundingly cheap. Off the top of my head, vaccinations are about 10€, travel vaccinations (for more obscure stuff like yellow fever, I assume) are 15 or 20€. Pregnancy tests are 3-5€ (I cannot recall). Strep tests are 11€. I think an EKG is 25€. I can't recall anything being much over 50€ (I think they have a small ultrasound machine and some sort of ultrasound is 51€?), and they'd cost a LOT more in the US. There was one time in the US where I wanted to get vaccinated for something that was going around, because I couldn't remember if I was fully vaccinated or not. They wanted to charge me $70! Insurance wouldn't cover it, because reasons. So, I did without and crossed my fingers.
I really do have coverage, and single payer would not be better than what I have, even though by US standards my insurance is middle of the road. Tying insurance to employers, a relic of labor price controls that were put in place during the second world war, is one of the big things that's wrong with the US system.
What will happen to your coverage in hypothetical case of prolonged unemployment, caused by, I dunno, a chronic disease? Comparing a general category ("single payer") to a specific product (like whatever you have) is meaningless anyway. However, if I compare OHIP I used to have and BlueCross I have now, OHIP wins in two ways. First, it is universal - can't be lost. This is a very, very, VERY big f..n deal, Steve. Also, there is no nonsense with in/network - out of network providers, copays, and coverage limits on medically necessary procedures. Two examples: I had to pay for a doctor-prescribed blood test, because it's not a right kind of test according to pencil pushers at BlueCross. Was not a thing in Canada. Another example: a cardiologist prescribed a sleep study for my 13-year-old. I myself had two of these done in Canada, got diagnosed with apnea and provided with a CPAM machine (with a private plan chipping in for a nicer model) - night and day difference in quality of life plus reduced risk of literally deadly complications. Scheduling a study here was actually slower than there; in addition, I am stuck with a bill of over $1000 - for a portion BlueCross didn't cover. How many families would just not have the test done (a chance for a 13-year-old to have a full-blown apnea is not that high)? And potentially missed whatever health anomaly the cardiologist suspected (turned out to be nothing, thanks God)? How many adults live with sleep apnea because they can't afford the visit? Keep in mind that prior to diagnosis, I actually caused a minor car crash; the thing makes you literally dose off behind the wheel (shout out to Charles and the American car dream) - danger to myself and others. I'll echo Rich to tell that single payer is actually not the only way to achieve universal coverage; highly regulated market can also be feasible. Single payer is just the most logical one and how it would be set up if starting from scratch. Yeah, that part is one of many not making any sense. If it's not tied to employer, though, it's still dependent of one's ability to pay the premiums (hence, work).
Thank you for an example of the lack of universal coverage hampering society's ability to achieve public health goals. that's the thing, though: GOP is actively hostile to US's ability to solve any kinds of problems as a nation.