List of flagship state universities and their satelites...

Ted,

it may be semantics but while UA is a system neither UAH or UAB are branches of UA. UAH was at one time but separated many years ago. Please note the organizational chart here:

http://www.uasystem.ua.edu/Administration/UAS%20Org%20Chart.pdf

You will see that all that UA, UAH, UAB presidents report to the chancellor. As much as I hate to say it: separate, but equal.

I was tongue in cheek regarding Auburn versus UA as the "flagship" of Alabama (as in state). There is no dispute that UA is the flagship of the UA system, however, Auburn is not part of that system and is the largest university in the state.

No offense meant just points of clarification.

Kevin

 

There seem to be a few points of confusion so perhaps we could get our definitions straight.

First of all, I had assumed that, if you have a "University of XYZ System," the "main campus" would usually be the oldest, or the biggest, or the one with the most doctoral programs - those three usually being the same and those that are newer or smaller of offer fewer or no doctoral programs would be "branch campuses." True, sometimes "branch campuses" (as I've defined them) sometimes grow and evolve and become as prestigious as the "main campus," with the perfect example being UCLA (founded 1919) being now basically a peer institution to U Cal Berkeley (founded 1868). How are others defining the "main campus" and "branch campus" issue?

Second, one of the early posters needs to draw a distinction between University of North Carolina System and North Carolina's system of state-supported universities and colleges.

 

A branch is an administrative unit of an institution -- not a separate or parallel unit – but an extension of. A branch does not have an autonomous identity or grant its own degrees.

For example my office is a block north of the California State University Stanislaus campus in Turlock. There is another branch of Stan State in Stockton. You can do a full degree on the Stockton campus. But administratively it is a part of the Turlock based institution -- same president, etc. The degree is from CSU Stanislaus.

Up the road a little further is the CSU Sacramento. While Sac State and Stan State are a part of the same Cal State university system neither are a branch of any other school (They each have branches of their own). And while there are some common values and standards in the CSU system – and a common board of regents – each school has its own president, sets its own policies, and admits its own students. Each university is individually accredited and grants its own degrees.

 

Definition of "flagship"

The original post called for a list of "flagship" campuses. There is no formal definition of a "flagship" campus; it's ultimately a subjective determination. To me, a "flagship" campus is one that towers over the others in the system, in terms of size, age, and reputation. Some systems have an obvious flagship campus. For other systems, the reality is that no true flagship campus exists.

For example, I would accept Penn State University in University Park as the flagship campus of the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education. Sure, there are other campuses in the system, but none of them have a national reputation; the average non-Pennsylvanian would be unable to name even a single one. The University Park campus is so far ahead that nobody knows or cares about number two.

The situation in the University of California system is different. Historically, Berkeley probably did qualify as a flagship campus. But not any more. Berkeley is still the highest-ranked UC campus (US News # 20 for national universities), but UCLA is not far behind (# 25), and neither are UC San Diego (# 35), UC Davis (# 42), UC Irvine (# 43), or UC Santa Barbara (# 45).

Think about it this way: Would the UC System still be nationally respected if the Berkeley campus vanished overnight? Would the Pennsylvania system still have a national reputation if the University Park campus vanished overnight?

 

SOUTH CAROLINA

The publics in South Carolina:

in no particular "order"...

* University of South Carolina - Columbia
USC - Aiken - sr. campus
USC - Beaufort - sr. campus
USC - Lancaster - reg. campus
USC - Sumter - reg. campus
USC - Union - reg. campus
USC - Upstate (formerly USC Spartanburg) - sr. campus
USC - Salkehatchie - reg. campus

* Clemson University

* Medical University of SC

* The Citadel

* Coastal Carolina University (formerly USC - Coastal Carolina College)

* College of Charleston

* Francis Marion University

* Lander University

* South Carolina State University

* Winthrop University


Most would agree that the main campus of the University of South Carolina in Columbia is "the flagship" of SC publics though Clemson and Citadel each hold a position of high esteem within the state.

 

Re: SOUTH CAROLINA

As noted previously, designating "flagship" campuses is a subjective exercise in many cases, and probably a waste of time.

In my opinion, a "flagship" campus has to be in a class by itself. Among SC public schools, the University of South Carolina - Columbia would not meet that standard, because Clemson arguably has equal (if not greater) national name recognition and prestige. The US News National University rankings, for example, place Clemson significantly higher (#74) than the University of South Carolina - Columbia (#117).

The Columbia campus might be the "flagship" campus of the University of South Carolina system, but that would only be a subset of all SC publlc schools.

Disclaimer: I am from California, and have no degrees or connections to any South Carolina universities.

 

Re: Re: SOUTH CAROLINA

Hi CalDog. I usually agree with your posts, but I'm gonna argue against this one.

I think that I'd define "flagship", at least in a smaller state's university system, as the school that closest approximates a full-service general across-the-board research university.

You can do a Ph.D. in philosophy and history at U. South Carolina. Clemson doesn't seem to offer graduate programs in those things. In fact, Clemson doesn't seem to offer any doctorates in the humanities at all, nor in most of the social sciences.

Of course Clemson does have lots of well regarded doctoral programs in agriculture, the sciences and engineering. But it's more specialized than U. South Carolina.

 

Ted,

Hello. According to my transcript from North Carolina Central University:

North Carolina Central University, a constituent institution of the University of North Carolina System, was founded in 1910.

We are part of the UNC system of universities.

 

Re: Re: Re: SOUTH CAROLINA

"Flagship" is a subjective concept, so your interpretation is as valid as mine.

But I would argue that a "flaghip" has to be the undisputed leader in every important respect (as with real, naval flagships). In this case, the University of South Carolina at Columbia may be the largest and most comprehensive public university, and these are certainly "flagship" characteristics. But Clemson, though admittedly smaller and more specialized, arguably has greater name recognition and prestige, which are also "flagship" qualities.

A true "flagship" school is a no-brainer to identify; it rules in every important respect. If you have to think about it, and weigh the qualifications of different schools, then none of them deserve the title of "flagship". A real "flagship" has no competition.

 

well, the comparison here isn't going to work. In the case of a naval flagship -- the "flag" goes on whichever ship the boss happens to be commanding from.

It isn't always the biggest, or baddest, or mightiest... it's whichever ship the "flag officer" determines he can command from best. Sometimes it's a "ship" specially designed for the purpose, sometimes it's a battleship, sometimes it's a carrier....

In terms of a university system, if we use this analogy, the "flagship" is where the boss directs from. He's the "flag officer" of the "flagship". In the case of the University of South Carolina, the boss is in Columbia. In terms of the SC Public University system; well, the boss is in Columbia too.

Regarding Clemson University and The Citadel. In many states you will find State A&T University -- well, guess what? In SC we gave A&T a name.... it's Clemson.

In many states you will find State Military Institute, well we gave that school a name too -- it's The Citadel.

USC - Columbia is the home of a medical and law school, the research center, the primary awarder of higher academic degrees. Clemson is the primary awarder of degrees in engineering and agriculture. They are the primary research center for agriculture.

The Citadel prepares future military leaders. Most of the other publics in South Carolina are what used to be called "teacher's college". Coastal Carolina (as one might expect) is a leader in Marine Science in the state and Medical University of South Carolina (as one might expect) prepares health professionals.

 

Can't use this analogy either

Unfortunately, this analogy won't work for many other systems. In many cases, the boss of the system works in the state's capital city, which may or may not be convenient to a major university campus (as it is in South Carolina).

For example, most everyone would agree that the University of Massachusetts system has a true "flagship" campus in Amherst. But the President of the University of Massachusetts System works from an office building in downtown Boston.

 

I'm going to duck the discussion of the relativity of the term "flagship" (although it may be a bit useful to think in terms of porno . . . and ducks).

I did want to amend Ted's list with respect to Texas. Texas has two state systems: The University of Texas System and The Texas A & M University System.

The "flagships" of these two systems, without any doubt--I would think--from the people of Texas, are: THE University of Texas (at Austin) and THE Texas A & M University (at College Station).

There is also a much smaller "State College" system, which probably has no "flagship," and gurglings from Texas Tech and North Texas about developing their own systems. If those ever emerge, I doubt that there will be much controversy about which schools are the "flagships" of those systems.

I will say that I agree with Rich and Jack on this one. This is a curious (meaningless?) thread. (To which I have contributed, of course.)

marilynd

 

The University of Houston would beg to differ.


The University of Houston-Central
University of Houston-Clear Lake
University of Houston-Victoria
University of Houston-Downtown
University of Houston-Cinco Ranch (A Part of UH-Victoria)

 

Yes, of course. Abject apologies to the great system to the southeast. No question about the "flagship" here.

With many universities named after cities being Catholic, it is easy to forget that Houston is a state university system. But in your neck of the woods, the Cathlic school would be St. Thomas, right?

Regards,

marilynd

 

Scotty,

Are you in NC? I was just wondering because of the layout of your Flagship/Satellite post. I went to that site and it says that in 1971 the General Assembly redfined the UNC system to encompass all 16 major NC universities. No one that I know considers NC State to be a satelite of UNC Chapel Hill OR inferior in anyway (unless you are of course a TarHeel born and bred ). Neither does anyone consider Elizabeth City or ASU to be UNC proper and many would argue the technical nature of it.

I would also like to point out that most, if not all, of the UNC named schools were existing universities before taking on the UNC name and not branches opened by UNC Chapel Hill.

 

You are correct. The University of St Thomas .

As a Catholic University born from the heart of the Church, the University of St. Thomas is dedicated to the religious, moral, and intellectual formation of the whole person. We are a learning community with a passion for truth, offering undergraduate and graduate programs characterized by excellence in teaching, research and scholarship.

It is off of Montrose. I applied for a reference position there last year, but didnt get the job.

 

MCDirector,

You are correct. North Carolina Central University was a long standing university before it became a constituent part of the UNC system. There was a scuttlebutt years ago to rename the school UNC Durham, but that met with loud protest. They did in fact rename Pembroke State University to UNC-Pembroke in the 1990's.

 

Flagship/satellite concept is misleading

My basic gripe here is that the whole "flagship" vs. "satellite" concept is fundamentally inapplicable for many states. It implies that there is some central "main" campus, presumably one that is larger, older, more comprehensive, and with a national reputation; this "flagship" campus is in turn orbited by a host of smaller, less prestigious "satellite" schools with only local reputations.

This picture may be valid for some state systems, but it is misleading to try to fit them all into this mold. The University of California system, for example, has promoted excellence throughout the system. Most of the UC campuses have earned national reputations, and would arguably qualify as "flagships" on their own if they happened to be located in other states. It is not realistic, for example, to characterize UCLA as a "satellite" or "branch" of UC Berkeley (unless you happen to be a rabid Cal graduate).

And many states have multiple university systems, and therefore multiple "flagships". The University of Texas at Austin may deserve "flagship" status, but in that case Texas A&M at College Station would too. Texas A&M is not a "satellite" or "branch" of UT.

It would make more sense to ask "Which public universities in each states have national reputations?" and "Which public universities in each state primarily serve local populations?" But most people should be able to figure this out on their own.

 

UNC System

The UNC System is far more than UNC Chapel Hill, although it is the oldest public university in the country. I am from NC and work for the University and there are 16 campuses. NC State is a constituent instituion as is East Carolina and the others mentioned earlier.