List of Diploma Mills from The Australian

Re: Re: Spice to the Stew.

This, like just about any requirement you can think of, varies from state to state. That is why state approval--without considering which state--means nothing.

 

Re: Re: Spice to the Stew.

Errm, do you have any evidence to substantiate this claim?

Cheers,

George

 

Re: Re: Re: Spice to the Stew.

In my university the requirement for a foreign degree is that is recognized by the goverment of the home country of the university that issued the degree.

Normally the hiring is done by the faculty and they normally validate that the degree comes from a recognized university, however, once you are teaching you can go to human resources and show them your "K-W" PhD degree and argue that is recognized by one US state and it is up to the human resources officer to decide if it the degree satisfy the university requirements for a pay raise.

You won't get hired based on your state approved degree but you might be able to the deceive the HR department in order to get a pay raise.

And this is happening quite a lot at community college level when normally a master is the requirement for hiring but then the professor shows up with his "state" approved degree for more money. It is quite a deal, for 5K I can get a DBA from CCU and get a 10K increase if the HR department accepts it. Of course I have to do some multiple choice exams to get it, but it doesn't compare to the 4 years and half full time that it takes to get a PhD down here.


I won't mention the college since I might be giving bad ideas to some.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Spice to the Stew.

Even within the USA we have a similar problem. For example, I suspect that the majority of K-W graduates that have satisifed degree requirements with their K-W degree did so only because someone goofed up and let it slip through. One thread that I find especially amusing on the K-W forum is the thread titled, "What Companies Accept KW as a Viable Education", http://vsu.kw.edu/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001091.html. It is full of comapnies that have apparently at one time reimbursed tuition at K-W! Reimbursing tuition is totally unrelated to accepting at least as far as my experience goes.

Why is there no entries in that thread for companies that considered a K-W degree to satisfy the requirement of a credential?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Spice to the Stew.

Ok is your university in Australia? If not, I ask again, what evidence do you have to suggest there, '...is an increasing number of professors (in Australia) using such credentials for university teaching'?

Cheers,

George

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Spice to the Stew.

Not Australia, Canada. When I say increasing it is because the HR people are now very paranoid about it, we have spotted few cases of degree mills. As a matter of fact I just passed them the list so they can check against your list. Very useful list to have.

 

The list has been edited. Fairfax is now in the non-traditional list, and Century is listed just once.

 

The Australian has received quite a letter to the editor in response to their diploma mill list. It has not (yet) been printed; don't know if it will be. I've asked them for permission to put it here.

A few excerpts:

"...get an eyeful of this, all you third-rate hacks writing for that second-rate, parochial rag...The Whorestralian."

"It is common knowledge (to all except slipshod, third-world paparazzi who don't bother to check their facts and sources) that Bear has been an owner and operator of diploma mills [and] his doctorate is from an unaccredited university.

"...You don't even have to get off your over-fed, muck-raking arses to test the voracity [sic] of what I have written...."

[The truth doesn't fit your] "...cozy and contrived little theory that nasty foreign cyber-scammers are using your insignificant and fly-blown island as a base for their nefarious operations..."

It is from "Nemesis" at an anonymizer account. of course.

John Bear, Ph.D. (from the it-was-accredited-
last-time-I-checked Michigan State University)

 

No Wool

RF:

How can you go into the mind of the HR person who slipped up and accepted the State Approved Degree, verses the Regionall Accredited Degree?

There is no slip up, as the State Approved Degree is legal, except for a OR and NJ, to apply for a position in the other 48 states and internationally. If an institution sates that a degree must be form a regionally accredited college, this is another, and very specific requirement. If I were to apply for a position, lets say, in SC, with my K-W BS Degree, and stated on the application, the school and the degree, and the employer did not have any requirements of RA Degrees only. I am perfectly within my rights. If I am questioned, I will state, that K-W is a WY State Liscenced and Appoved Post Secondary Eduactional Insititution, legally operating within the United States, as such, thus able to confer degrees by meeting the WY DoE Requirements. There is no wool being pulled over anyones eyes. I would not stste that my degree is accredited, as K-W, is not.

Proud to be a graduate of a University which is legally operating and liscenced within the great state of WY, is the the USA.

 

Is KW-U truly approved by the state of Wyoming? Does the state say that?

I'm not confronting, just asking, since I don't know.

Many of the lawsuits Mr. Brunton is bringing in Hawaii are against schools that either say or imply they are state approved, when they are not, so this is an important issue.

Incidentally, the word is "licensed," not the way you have spelled it twice. And "versus." And, oh never mind . . .

 

The law in Hawaii explicitly states that an unaccredited school cannot claim to be approved by the state. I seriously doubt that Wyoming has a similar law.

 

Proof

Please Read the 8th Bullet Down:

http://www.k12.wy.us/web/faq.html#kw

or:

http://www.kw.edu/recognition.asp

Kennedy-Western is a fully legal, state approved post secondary educational institution, protected by the consitution. And as such, is able to confer degrees. Until the government changes its position to allow states to approve and liscence schools, the school is operating legally, and it's degrees are equally as legal (outside of OR &NJ), as any US based RA School.

 

Re: Proof

What's with the "k12" ??

Here's what I see at http://www.k12.wy.us/FINANCE/private_institutions/degree.html

• KENNEDY-WESTERN UNIVERSITY
  Licensed/not accredited by the state

And in the FAQ:

• What is licensing?
  Licensing is the process used by the state of Wyoming to ensure that the educational institution meets the minimum standards stipulated by statute and rules and regulations.

Note that these standards relate to administrative issues, not educational effectiveness. The FAQ then continues:

• What is accreditation?
  Accreditation is a voluntary process that colleges and schools elect to participate in. It is not a state function. Accreditation assures that an institution's programs have met established standards for educational effectiveness.
  To insure a basic level of quality, accreditation through non-governmental peer evaluation has been instituted. Regional and national private educational associations have assumed this role. You can access these institutions on the U.S. Department of Education's website at www.ed.gov.

Not comforting!

 

Wyoming statute

Your Wyoming link didn't work for me, but here is a link to the criteria for licensure of private postsecondary schools in Wyoming:

http://www.k12.wy.us/higher_ed/criteria.html#ch30

That K-W issues a "legal" degree is true; but (since you brought it up), you have to admit, RJT, that the criteria does not include hefty academic standards.

 

Re: Wyoming statute

Agreed -- they aren't academic standards, they are administrative requirements.

Since K-W openly operates from Thousand Oaks, CA, I am wondering why California doesn't give them the pointed end of the boot?

 

Re: Proof

Gee, I looked in the "consitution" (sic) and I don't see K-WU mentioned anywhere, or anything about higher education, for that matter.

Yes, K-WU is legal. So is sitting on a street corner and picking your nose. But neither is going to be much help professionally.

No one ever questions the legality of K-WU degrees, so why do you keep bringing it up?

Nobody recognizes degrees from K-WU as being from a recognized university. N-O-B-O-D-Y. I would love to see some evidence of it. (K-WU's literature isn't sufficient; you'll need independent proof. Got any?)

The legal status of the school isn't sufficient. Ask any number of people who've used legally issued degrees and gotten into trouble. Or see the cases of Anthony Geruntino, Ernest Sinclair, Ron Pellar, and other degree mill operators who've gone to prison for running schools that were legally licensed in their respective states. I'm not suggesting that's the case with K-WU, but they're in the same leaky boat.

 

Re: Re: Proof

Not only does the state of Wyoming never even imply approval, but the licensing statutes (lax as they may be) requires that each student execute an enrollment agreement or contract (which the school must keep on file for inspection) containing the following statement:

• "I understand that (name of institution) is licensed by the Wyoming department of education in accordance with W.S. 21-2-401 through 21-2-407 and that neither the department of education nor the Wyoming state board of education has accredited or endorsed any course of study being offered by (name of institution)."

The Applicable Wyoming State Statutes on Licensing can be found at http://www.k12.wy.us/higher_ed/statutes.html .

 

Re: Re: Re: Proof

So let me get this straight. If I open a TESOL school in Wyoming with its respective license, am I able to give unaccredited degrees but state approved based on my school license? Even if I don’t have a single full time faculty member neither a library?. Does K-W have a campus? Or at least a building? Or it is just made of part time contract faculty working from home and with a one-guy-business running it? This sounds to me like the trinity college argument that they are legal because they are not based in the UK and the UK law allows the recognition of foreign degrees and it is up to the employer to recognize it or not. Vancouver University uses the same argument, they have a TESOL license and they issue degrees because there is no regulation against it. RJIT must be kidding if he thinks that a B.Sc from K-W would be equivalent to an RA because of some technicality, or may be he is right and we are all wasting our money and time and we are over paying for our education.

RJIT, have you been given a raise because your K-W degree? Are you eligle to apply to federal or goverment jobs that require a bachelor's degree? Do you feel that your business knowledge has increased because of it? Have you taken any RA courses to compare?

 

Re: Re: Proof

Gus is correct.

On

http://www.k12.wy.us/higher_ed/criteria.html#ch30

State of Wyoming Criteria for Licensing of Private Post Secondary Institutions and Private Non-Religious K-12

it is required that a "Statement on admissions form and class schedule that neither State Department nor Board approve or accredited any courses taught. "

KW may be State Licensed, but it does not appear to be state approved.



TaneaG

 

Safeguards

Kennedy-Western is Fully State Liscenced, and as such, is subject to reviews by the DoE (several months ago they passed with flying colors), which audited their offices in CA, as well as, WY. The school also can not award a degree soley on the bases of epxperience, or research, or testing out. Unlike many RA schools which allow for CLEP. K-W is conducts a self imposed audit be esteemed professors from respected RA schools, to assure that academic standards are par. Furthermore, the fine school offers a refund, if a student can demonstrate that their degree coursework was anything less than would be expected at a Regionally Acredited School. With all these safegaurds, I feel that K-W is a viable choice for a student seeking an alternative educational insitution.