Liberty's DBA now ACBSP accredited

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by chrisjm18, May 20, 2020.

  1. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Is it rude to shrug? It's obviously not a bad thing, and ACBSO and IACBE are legitimate, but honestly the only time they get my attention is when they programmatically accredit programs at a school that otherwise has its institutional accreditation in doubt.
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  3. GregWatts

    GregWatts Active Member

    For me, this says less about Liberty and more about ACBSO and IACBE.
  4. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    It's ACBSP. I blame Steve for this... lol
    SteveFoerster likes this.

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    I saw it on the ACBSP's website several days ago. The next steps are moving from DBA to Ph.D. and AACSB accreditation. Just kidding, I don't think they are going to Ph.D. because the final product is not a dissertation. :D
  6. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Why not? Remember the DBA had a dissertation prior to the Spring 2020 semester. They could always add a Ph.D. in Business Administration while maintaining their DBA. The School of Education has both an Ed.D. with a capstone and a Ph.D. with a dissertation.
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    LOL, yeah, I noticed it after it was too late to edit it. Now my error is preserved for posterity....
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  8. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    That is great that they finally got their DBA accredited by ACBSP! I believe this will help Liberty attract more students.
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    I've always been curious regarding the value of programmatic accreditation in business outside of AACSB. Seldom do employers expect it; they never expect other forms of accreditation like ACBSP. Universities don't expect ACBSP accreditation, either for their faculties or their students' prerequisite degrees.

    But perhaps you've hit on it: ACBSP accreditation is merely a marketing tool. I can believe that.
  10. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    Exactly. Having ACBSP Accreditation will, in theory, attract more students who just "accredited" and do not care whether it is AACSB or ACBSP.
  11. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    There are "AACSB or ACBSP" lines in some academic job ads and I believe in some state CPA license processes.
    JoshD likes this.
  12. Dr Rene

    Dr Rene Member

    If I remember correctly, traditionally, there used to be a much clearer distinction between AACSB and ACBSP:

    AACSB was geared more toward research-oriented schools, and emphasized academic research. AACSB accreditation requirements emphasized number of faculty with PhDs, research output of faculty (e.g., number of peer-reviewed journal articles published; number of books published, number of academic conferences presentations…), amount of sponsored research funding.

    ACBSP was geared more toward teaching-oriented schools, and emphasized students acquiring the needed business skills and developing business competence needed in the workforce. ACBSP accreditation requirements emphasized assessment of student learning and emphasized faculty with, and maintaining, professional experience in their fields (e.g., CPA for accounting, …).

    Then came articles like “How Business Schools Lost their Way” and others. Now, I believe, in terms of actual accreditation requirements, there is a blur in the distinction between AACSB and ACBSP accreditation, with AACSB having recently, (past 15 years?) focusing on student outcomes. However, AACSB will always be seen as the more prestigious of the accreditations, based on the traditional distinction.
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Agreed. But is there even a second place? Do any of the others matter?

    When the boxing world was ruled by the WBA, we knew who the champion of each weight class was. Other organizations had clout, like the New York State Athletic Commission, but we knew who was really in charge of recognizing champions.

    When the WBC came along in the early '60s, we started seeing fissures in that issue. The term "undisputed champion" began to arise more frequently as the WBA and WBC sometimes diverged--recognizing other contenders, not recognizing some champions, etc. These conditions led to a third body, the IBF, being formed to clear it all up. But it didn't; it just created a third player in the game. The WBO finished it up when it came into being in 1988. It's been chaos ever since, with these upstarts diminishing the original--the WBC--greatly.

    This ain't that. The AACSB is the grand-daddy of them all, but there are no real contenders. The others are just wannabe accreditors with little impact on business programs and the degrees they confer. Their accreditation doesn't seem to have much meaning beyond being a marketing tool for some schools. I'm not saying that applying their standards doesn't improve the programs they accredit--I have no idea either way. I'm just saying that the recognition they confer is almost meaningless outside their circle of accredited programs--and largely meaningless even within that circle.
    JoshD likes this.
  14. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    I agree and when you look at the programs that AACSB accredits and then compare them to the programs that ACBSP's night and day. Now, I am not saying ACBSP does not have a place nor am I saying programs like Walden, University of Phoenix, etc. do not have a place. However, there is a distinguishable difference in the programs accredited. Right or wrong, it is the truth.
  15. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    That's laughable. While I think AACSB is superior, it accredits some mediocre schools, e.g. Southern University at New Orleans. They have one of the lowest, if not the lowest graduation rate in the country. There are so many other schools with AACSB accreditation whose business schools have no recognition or ranking anywhere.
  16. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    I did not say EVERY business school that AACSB accredits is superior. However, AACSB has far superior programs that they do accredit such as Stanford, Harvard, Kellogg, Booth, Wharton, Yale, Sloan, Stern, Fuqua, Ross, Tepper, and the list goes on and on. Yes, there are programs that are not prestigious, known or ranked that are accredited by AACSB but I do not believe you will find a business school in the US News, QS, etc. rankings that is ACBSP accredited.

    All I was getting at is that there are more prestigious and known business schools accredited by AACSB than ACBSP.
  17. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    You're probably talking about SUNO's six-year graduation rate for first-time full-time undergraduate students across all majors.

    So SUNO's main undergraduate program gives a statistically hard-to-reach student population, less likely to graduate there within six years, a chance. Good for them!

    Do you have some evidence SUNO's business school is mediocre?
  18. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    You forgot to add SOME to your previous comment. When you say programs, it suggests generalization.
    JoshD likes this.
  19. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Good morning campers. I’ve been sitting on this for a while, waiting patiently for an appropriate opportunity to bring it up. But first, a general comment before I proceed to bust Chris’ balls over a gross injustice he has committed . . .
    What the hell is with this trend to refer to individual schools within a university rather than the university itself? I, for one, am not familiar with Kellogg, Booth, Sloan, Stern, Ross, or Tepper (although I did look them up, which may be easy but unnecessarily time consuming). In fact, the only reason I knew where Fuqua was is thanks to Josh’s ongoing adventures. And the only school I have ever referred to by its name rather than the parent university is Wharton, simply because it is at the top of the heap (and since I’m from Philadelphia). Speaking of Philly, even Temple University has gotten into the program name act by emphasizing the Fox School of Business, but I would imagine that most people have no clue as to where Fox is.

    But the real ball busting today goes in the direction of chrisjm18, who (as usual) is picking petty one-line arguments with a number of members here at DI.

    Back in March, there was some dialogue about the fact that Chris listed the schools by their mottos rather than the school names. For example, he is pursuing his doctorate at “Knowledge Aflame” (Liberty’s motto), he earned one of his master’s at “Carpe Diem” (which could mean any number of schools), etc.

    But he recently changed his sig file to reflect the universities with which he has been associated, plus the individual schools at those universities.

    Thus, we are now informed that Chris is not only pursuing his doctorate at Liberty, but that he is specifically enrolled at the Helms School of Government.

    Notwithstanding that (1) he is misrepresenting his MBA by not listing the school as Assam Don Bosco University (since there is more that one Don Bosco University), I submit that no one gives a shit about the generic school of commerce and management, nor Lamar’s generic college of arts and sciences, nor Ashworth’s department names.
    Now, for the ball busting . . . Chris, bubaleh, before you diss me and say that you don’t give a hoot, riddle me this: Have you ever looked up who the “Helms” is in Liberty’s Helms School of Government? And if you have, how can you have the unmitigated gall to list the Helms School in your sig file?

    Or were you not aware that Jesse Helms, after whom Jerry Sr. named the school, is one of the most staunch racists and segregationists to ever be elected to the U.S. Senate?

    The reason this is so absurd is that Chris may easily be described as somewhat racially centered. He has informed us more than once that he is Black, and his Facebook page at clearly shows his Afrocentric orientation (and his smiling face, which looks remarkably like his avatars).

    So why, then, is he proud to publicize the individual school name of his Liberty program, glorifying Jesse Helms, of whom Wikipedia said:

    Helms was the most stridently conservative politician of the post-1960s era,[4] especially in opposition to federal intervention into what he considered state affairs (including legislating integration via the Civil Rights Act and enforcing suffrage through the Voting Rights Act)…

    He fought what he considered to be liberalism whenever it was on the agenda, opposing civil rights, disability rights, feminism, gay rights, affirmative action, access to abortions, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), and the National Endowment for the Arts.[6] Helms brought an "aggressiveness" to his conservatism, as in his rhetoric against homosexuality…

    Jesse Helms was accused of racism throughout his career. Upon Helms's retirement from the Senate in 2001, David Broder of The Washington Post wrote a column headlined "Jesse Helms, White Racist," analyzing Helms's public record on race, a record he felt many other reporters were side-stepping. He highlighted Helms's willingness to inflame racial resentment against African-Americans for political gain, dubbing Helms "the last prominent unabashed white racist politician in this country."

    (It’s worth reading the wiki on Helms – the part I quoted above only begins to touch on his history as a racist and segregationist. It also covers Helms’ negative history on LGBT issues, which Chris has stated he supports.)

    So have fun, Chris. Trash me all you want, as if I give a hoot. But let’s see if, knowing that you are glorifying Helms, you continue to keep the school reference in your sig file. Oh, and if you do drop the Helms reference, don't bother thanking me - I've saved your ass more than once, so it's no big whoop. (Side note: I'm actually cutting Chris some slack, even though he doesn't deserve it, because he was born in Jamaica. I wouldn't expect him to know who Helms was, although he's been in the States long enough that he should have some cultural literacy in this area by now.)

    Nice seeing y’all – I’m back outta here.

    (So where am I these days? You can find out at
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  20. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    My apologies as I forget not everyone on this forum is business school savvy.

    Kellogg - Northwestern University
    Booth - University of Chicago
    Sloan - MIT
    Stern - New York University
    Ross - University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
    Tepper - Carnegie Mellon University
    Wharton - University of Pennsylvania
    Fuqua - Duke University

    The list goes on and on. I typically refer to them by their individual school name on GMAT Club and the trend carried over to here. Again, my apologies.
    chrisjm18 likes this.

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