Liberty University

I agree with all of the above sentiments, and take Tom's comments in the spirit in which they were intended (with a little bit of zing).

Of course I view schools such as Oxford, Cambridge, and some others as not only legit, but quite prestigious.

However, that does not mean that I automatically accept every foreign school that I run across. I have always had significant doubts about many of the foreign schools that have been discussed on the newsgroup and this forum and, quite frankly, I simply do not know enough about them to make a value judgment. So, quite simply, I err on the side of caution.

Nonetheless, I find that people tend to take a single point and magnify it, to the extent that they neglect to see the big picture. And for me, the big picture has not only included accreditation, but also residency for graduate degrees. Therefore, as legit as I think Oxford or Cambridge are, I would question an American who claims an Oxon or Cantab degree without ever having been there.

 

I agree that it would be a positive experience, but isn't this intrinsic opportunity just that, an opportunity? Would the residency (whether 5 days or 35 days) be absolutely necessary to make the program legitimate. Could a similar experience take place via e-mail, phone conference, etc., which would provide accountability and contact with peers, faculty, etc.?

I also agree that in the US, regional accreditation is the "gold standard," which is why I chose RA schools to earn three degrees (B,M,D). However, there are also many foreign (non-US) schools which are equally credible (and many which are not).

For example, Potchefstroom University in South Africa (131 years old) offers the Ph.D. in theology via distance learning. John Bear called this program a "splendid opportunity" to earn a legitimate accredited (GAAP) Ph.D. via distance learning. Dale Gough of the American Association of College Registrars and Admissions Officers stated that Potch would be recognized institutionally in the US as equal to a RA school.

So, while I agree that if all factors are manageable for a US student, e.g., cost, ability to dislocate to complete a residency, logistics, etc., then a US program is the route to take. However, for those who either cannot afford the tuition of a US program (doctorate=$20,000 minimum), or dislocate for a residency, I agree with John Bear that foreign (non-US) programs like Potch (doctorate=$5,000), UNISA, etc., are a viable option for some.

Russell

 

Thank you, thank you.

Certainly fair enough.

Questions, I think, are good -- and I'm pretty sure my 100% nonresidential South African or Australian Ph.D. will raise a few eyebrows. But the issue, I think, is: will an honest and comprehensive description of just what I did to earn the degree silence the skeptics? I think it will, for the most part. That's why I really plan to put my dissertation online, unless I think I can make a book out of it; it'll vouch for just how I did the program. I'd still expect it to be a running gag ("Yeah, but you should *expect* that; he learned theology by correspondence from a Zulu medicine man."), but in some respects I wouldn't have it any other way. Why go through the master's level in a completely unconventional way and then turn back the plow for my doctorate? But I digress.
Besides, the main thing I want to do with my Ph.D. is write books; sure, I'd like to adjunct, but I've been told I could do that now if I wanted to. And if I ever do jump into the Academy with both feet, I suspect my solid publication record will put any credibility-related concerns to rest.

Now, as for Michael: I have little doubt that if he's well-known in his area as a Friend of the Seminary, he'll have little trouble getting a teaching job with a UNISA doctorate. Would it be an easier go if he went through the Union Institute? Probably; there would be less to explain, at any rate. But my suspicion here is that we're talking apples and apples here, as getting a good teaching spot in today's crowded Academy (sacred or secular) *always* involves some sort of leveraging (dude, do you think these prestigious ATS-accredited seminaries you've worked with would have hired you if you had a Union Ph.D. in systematic theology as opposed to religion and law? Well, if you were host of The Steve Levicoff Theology Hour, I think they probably would have, but it would have been rough going otherwise). I once knew a guy with a residential Ph.D. in political science. He worked as a security guard for years because he couldn't get a teaching post (he didn't publish, ergo...). So it seems a shame to me, really, that folks should take drastic steps to earn a more traditional doctorate when they'll probably have to buffer it with other stuff anyway.

That's my position on this; for what it's worth, I've always believed that the secret to credibility is to always play from your sphere. It's like Ueshiba says in "The Art of Peace": conflict begins when you enter someone else's element and try to make it your own. Be honest to yourself at all times, stay in your own element when you can, and keep a low center of gravity, and you'll always be credible. Or at least that's the way I see it.


Peace,

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Tom Head
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

Tom,

An excellent post!

A comment and a question: A Liberty U. MAR would cost me about $5800 for tuition; add interest at 8%, paid back over seven years, and the total is about $9100. This is for a 45-semester hour Master's. A UNISA Th.M would cost about $1200.

Taking the cost of the two degrees into consideration but also the potential for acceptance of the two degrees at American schools, religious and secular, if you were in my situation and had to choose between Liberty and UNISA, what do you think you'd do?

 

Thanks.

Hmmmm... That's a good question. My thoughts:

- In nontraditional education, a diversified resume can address a lot of concerns. Besides, there's just something catchy about being able to say "I hold degrees from universities on three continents!" So if I were in your shoes, I might also consider some of the wonderful Australian schools offering inexpensive master's programs in theology or religion -- Charles Sturt University or the University of New England, to name two excellent choices. Another possibility (though it's closer to Liberty than UNISA in cost) might be the University of Wales, Lampeter, which offers some correspondence-based master's programs in some very interesting fields (Celtic Christianity, feminist theology, death and immortality, etc).

- That said: of the two programs, I'd probably go with UNISA. The Th.M. is a higher credential than the M.A., and UNISA offers a broader range of specializations (Christian spirituality, missiology, ecclesiology and church history, theological ethics, systematic theology, etc.).

Good luck!


Peace,

------------------

Tom Head
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

I believe that Southern Baptist Theological Seminary offers its M. Div. at a distance. It's both SACS and ATS accredited. You can find their extension program Web page here:
<http://www.sbts.edu/schools/programs/extprog.html>.

Cheers,

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Michael Wilson

 

SBTS is both SACS and ATS accredited, and is an excellent school. However, I do not believe their M.Div. is offered totally at a distance. Per ATS requirements, only 1/3 of the program can be offered at a distance.

Russell