Lets Storm the U.S. Capital!!!

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by LevelUP, Sep 30, 2022.

  1. LevelUP

    LevelUP Active Member


    So let me see if I got this right.

    According to Democrats, despite Ray Epps being the ONLY guy caught on camera repeating, saying, "we need to GO IN in to the capital," and was right there at the exact moment the gate was breached.

    The federal government thinks this is a super duper stand-up guy that is off limits from being arrested.

    It's totally fine, don't question it, or you're a conspiracy theorist!

    It will be interesting to see what he says when he's put under oath to find out his relationship with the federal government. What is going on here?
  2. LevelUP

    LevelUP Active Member

    Going down the rabbit hole
    I was doing a little research, and here is what I found. All of these highlights are quotes from the sources, not my words.

    Who is Ray Epps?
    He served in the US Marines and ultimately worked his way up to full Marine Sergeant.
    Back in 2011-2012, Epps was the Arizona state chapter leader of the Oath Keepers — the biggest Oath Keepers chapter in the country (very important fact)

    Who is Stewart Rhodes
    Stewart Rhodes was and remains the national leader Oath Keepers and very close friends with Ray Epps. Rhodes was also there on 1/6 seen at the white house steps.

    Who is John Sullivan
    John Sullivan video clip above, it is remarkable to see Epps — a man kicked out of two group conversations by Trump supporters on accusations of being a Fed — and John Sullivan — a man kicked out of two cities by Antifa groups on accusations of being a Fed — sharing the same video frame, in the same group conversation, on the same night.

    And in that clip, Epps proposes such cartoonishly illegal activities that even John Sullivan jokes Ray Epps is on “some undercover agent type shit.”

    The simultaneous presence of both Epps and Sullivan at the same place, at the same time, in the exact same conversation circle, suggests the possibility these two were not there by accident, but rather were instructed or encouraged by handlers to go out

    The Ray Epps breach team thus set up a booby trap by pushing back the police, then hauling away the “restricted area” signage, the chain fencing, and the metal barricades—all while tens of thousands were still at the Trump rally. Without police present or “do not enter” signs prominently visible, people leaving Trump’s speech and arriving at the Capitol entrance would have no idea it was illegal to walk through the gate, or onto the lawn, or up to the Capitol steps. After all, this entire area is ordinarily open to the public. The Ray Epps Breach Team thus set up what may amount to the largest legal booby-trap in American history.

    Amazingly, on June 30th, the NYT’s “Insurrection” obsessives, trying to decipher a secret “dog whistle” between President Trump, Stephen Bannon, Rudy Giuliani, and Roger Stone and the tens of thousands of MAGA protesters in DC that day, were now poking their own eyes out to avoid acknowledging actual coordination, caught on tape, between unindicted persons apparently orchestrating the opening act of the Capitol attack.

    For nearly six months, amidst the biggest manhunt in American history, the FBI did nothing with this information. As the FBI did nothing on Epps, it was simultaneously investigating, arresting, raiding and imprisoning hundreds of completely benign MAGA moms and social media trolls — mostly for minor misdemeanor trespassing charges.

    Oath Keeper and Green Beret veteran Jeremy Brown is being held behind bars, his bail denied until trial, simply for standing 100 feet too close to the Capitol steps.

    Meanwhile, Ray Epps, Rhodes and John Sullivan continue to receive inexplicable protection from prosecution.

    Wrap Up
    So you don't have to take this stuff seriously. Consider this entertainment if you want. One interesting set of facts to look up is the fed's long history of being heavily involved in infiltrating protests and extremist groups.



    Revolver has confirmed that the FBI scrubbed Epps from their public Most Wanted database just one day after Revolver News’s damning investigative report on Epps’s fellow Oath Keeper Stewart Rhodes. (New York Times also did a story)
    A careful study of the history of Fed infiltration into militia groups reveals a pattern of using ex-military personnel to conduct such operations.

    Very interesting. To prevent the rise of a dangerous domestic terrorist group, the FBI would have to become one, hence the establishment of the honey-pot militia organization “Veterans Aryan Movement” and dozens of other spin-off honeypot Fed militia groups.

    In order to defeat the boogeyman of right-wing “patriot” militia groups, the government has to become them.

    In order to preempt the fictional possibility of a right-wing insurrection, then, we might say the feds had to become that insurrection.

    If Ray Epps is a Fed, the “Insurrection” becomes the “Fedsurrection” in one fell swoop.
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    A bunch of people rioted illegally at the US Capitol building and are now paying a price for it.
  4. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The message is a bit more complex and dangerous I think. A fraction of the population has reached a level of desperation in its own life that causes it to turn to a False Messiah and lose its faith in our political and civil institutions. Trump is a symptom. The Capitol insurrection is a symptom. Do what we will to those who attack our very democracy, the movement is broad and won't just melt away in the face of jail time.

    I have been saying for years that the wealthy and politically powerful are badly out of touch with a large chunk of the population in "flyover country". The message the "heartland" people receive from the elites is, "You don't matter. You are ignorant, racist, and intolerant. You are unnecessary to the globalized future we have planned. You, your families and your communities are expendable. "

    That's when the elites even bother to think about these people at all.

    This country is in deep trouble folks.
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    "Oh, and your religion is a lie, your god is nonsense and your moral code is actually illegal. We know best."
    LevelUP and SteveFoerster like this.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed. I like mine, (Canada) but it has some serious problems, too. One of the things I've noticed - it's not just elites shrugging and saying that ordinary people are "expendable." It's the people themselves. "Average Joe" doesn't give a - whatever - about what happens to "Average Jim" down the street or across town. Lives of others seem remarkably cheap to many. Someone in a degree forum - maybe this one, posted they had moved back to NYC. Their comment was: "(COVID) deaths aren't too bad - 300-400 a week."

    That's 15-20,000 per year in ONE city! That kind of life loss, from a single cause, is "not too bad?" That's a pretty callous attitude, where I come from.

    From reading and personal experience - I find there's a sharp gender difference. "Average Jane" and "Average Jill" DO, as a rule, care. Far more than menfolk. There's a lot I can learn, here. I'm liking it.
    Rachel83az likes this.
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Even though I "liked" this post, I have trouble with its premise.

    Yes, there is a subset of America that is as the first paragraph describes.

    But I really disagree with the second paragraph. It implies that the group in question is problematic because they're not being pandered to anymore. If that is true, they have themselves to blame.

    American society moves quickly. That same group is guilty of not just failing to keep up, but actively (and sometimes violently) doing what it can to stop this inevitable. progress. I believe THEY are the problem.

    I firmly believe these White supremacists--and their fellow travelers (to give any individual over their an "out")--are being exploited by very powerful politicians (the GOP) and corporations (like social media companies). The fuel for their inflamed anger.

    It's not because the "coastal elite" is ignoring them, or being mean to them. They're being left behind and this is their reaction to it. Being left behind not by the elites on the left, but by everyone else but themselves.
    Rachel83az likes this.
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Okay, one other thing. If this country actually had majority rule, what would it look like? A whole lot different than what we're seeing now. That aggrieved bunch? They're a very powerful and entrenched minority, clinging to power they cannot legitimately earn at the ballot box. So, they abandon democratic means, even the rule of law, to get what they want--or to prevent what they fear.

    The two most un-democratic institutions on the planet are the Electoral College and the US Senate. Imagine if the majority actually got to rule how different things would be today.
  9. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Then the majority would have all the power and the minority would have none.


    The point of this country was that nobody should have all the power, not even the majority.
    LevelUP and Helpful2013 like this.
  10. LevelUP

    LevelUP Active Member

    This isn't just a U.S thing. Environmental Nazis decided to ban fertilizer in Sri Lanka, and what happened? Food yields immediately went down 50%, and prices went up 80%.

    As a result, poor people in Sri Lanka are now starving while the rich elites fly their private jets and relax in their oceanfront homes.

    Environmental Nazis are embedded here in the U.S. In California, they have been busy shutting down safe nuclear power plants. Now California is on the verge of rolling blackouts as the grid can't handle the load. Rather than building new electric generation capacity, the Nazis would rather tell you to cut back on YOUR electric use while they are telling everyone we need are going to ban the sale of all gasoline cars and switch to electric cars.

    It's open season on religion among other things.

    The U.S. is supposed to be a constitutional republic meaning that some rights such as free speech can't be taken away.

    Norway has recently enacted new laws against so-called "hate speech" in which you can get up to 3 years in prison for violation of the law. What is hate speech? Well, whatever the ruling party defines as hate speech. Rules for thee, but not for me.

  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    We've had hate-speech laws in Canada for years. I'm not opposed to them, at least, as I've seen them operate. The few prosecutions I've read about under this legislation were all for Antisemitic, Holocaust Denial, or White Supremacist speech.

    I think this Norwegian woman is wrong - dead wrong - in her insistence that a trans-gendered woman cannot be a lesbian. She doesn't have access to the wiring schematics for all humanity. For making the lives of others miserable with her public "shaming" she should suffer a penalty of some sort. Not three years in jail, though - but I doubt she'll get that.

    I think there's a place for hate-speech legislation. I realize such a belief is Un-American - but so am I. To me, it's not a matter of oppression by the ruling elite. It's a matter of protection by law. And the law should be applied with common sense.

    And, Norwegian nut-lady, be warned. I've been in the process of writing a story, for a while, now. It's about a lesbian, born female, who falls in love with a transgendered woman - who is, naturally, also lesbian. It's a happy story. Their relationship - which is interracial, by the way, quickly becomes a beautiful love - and they marry - and navigate some twists and turns together.

    Want to prosecute ME, Norwegian nut-lady? Maybe just for being a man and writing about (gasp!) interracial lesbians - including one transgendered woman? C'mon. Bring it! :)
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Another perspective is that organized religion's role in our public society is far too huge, exceeding what the Constitution provides.
  13. LevelUP

    LevelUP Active Member

    American society has been moving quicker today than in the past.

    The automobile took around 40 years before 25% of the population had one. Running water took decades as well. Social media was adopted in less than a decade.

    It took Democrats 100 years, from 1865 to 1964, to finally let go of Jim Crow laws and embracing racist organizations such as the KKK.

    I don't think things are that bad in everyday life. Most people today are still willing to help each other out.

    My recent personal experience is I was having trouble with one of the wheels of my car as it was bouncing and making a funny noise.

    The tire repair shop said they were too busy to get to it today though as I was getting ready to leave, the manager offered for free to check to see if the lug nuts were tightened.

    As I pulled up, he noticed that my tire was missing a large piece of tire tread and was on the verge of a blowout. He then offered to put on the spare.

    A study finds men are just as emotional as women. So why do men do things that end up killing them, such as fighting? Because men are emotional and dumb. Lol.

    Well then, Whoopi Goldberg better not go to Canada, as she made Holocaust denial public statements on two separate TV shows. Lol.

    I'm sure Whoopi Goldberg is for hate-speech laws as long as it doesn't apply to her, of course.

    Any story that is different and/or controversial is going to be interesting to readers.

    It's hard to shock people nowadays. You pretty much have to kill someone or feature someone having sex to hold someone's attention.
  14. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Two problems.

    1) Who gets to decide what hate speech is? There are members of this forum who have argued (badly, btw..) that voter ID laws are racist. If I say I support voter ID laws, should I be arrested for promoting racism?

    2) Holocaust denial. Wow. Should the government really have to power to decide what's true, and to punish people who say otherwise?

    Now, below is a general statement, and the "you" here does not refer to you, Johann.

    I don't know how to argue against someone who doesn't like freedom of speech. It's mind boggling to me why anyone would want that kind of tyrannical power looming over us, unless they think they'll be the ones in power. For those who do like freedom of speech, it's only actually freedom if it applies to everyone and not just the ones you agree with. Orwell wrote in 1984 that "freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four". In the context of the novel, it's an apt statement. In the real world, I'd go a step further and say that freedom is ALSO the freedom to say that two plus two equals twelve. Or two plus two equals negative infinity. Or two plus two equals Epstein didn't kill himself.

    It's the only way it works.
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  15. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    I think an element of this, with free speech being an absolute, is the recognition that there are often real costs associated with it. The methods that information flows today, and the extensive reach of some voices, has real world implications for individuals, groups, and society as a whole. People saying things with the intent to “burn” down the system and/or to do real-harm to others is a problem when enough people, or even just the “right” person, believes it to the extent it results in actual harm to others. People say things they know are not accurate to achieve their goals, whatever those may be. What processes, systems, methods, etc. do we have to deal with or counter such things in a modern world within the constrains of American social life? Do we just accept those things exist and let the harm occur?
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    You can't. It's hopeless. Give up, now. even if you DID succeed, somewhat - there's no prize. :)

    This is it. I will not address the subject further. I don't like what I've heard so far.

    I think freedom of speech is like being free to bear arms -- or even freedom to drive a car. All three things can do damage. And if people damage others - or what belongs to others - there are penalties. You misuse freedom - and it can be taken away. For a set time - or completely, depending on how seriously it was misused. If fanatics - or plain lowlifes, weaponize speech and incite their bro's - and others to despise and possibly damage another group of human beings -- they need to be punished. And I don't think deciding what's hate-speech and what's not requires genius-level thinking.

    As to your remark about the Holocaust - I think that's just terrible. I think everybody knows the truth - though some hateful people continue to deny it, with no basis in fact. Millions know it personally - those with relatives lost in the death-camps -or among the survivors. Yes - our Government makes laws - that's their JOB. And yes, in this case they know what they're doing.

    And people are still free to make nonsensical statements, as per your examples of 2+2 and Jeffrey Epstein. They don't go to jail. Silliness is not a crime - unless someone gets hurt. Stupidity -- that SHOULD be a crime - or at least it should hurt. But it doesn't.

    I'm really sorry I opened this can of worms. I knew I'd hear something really distasteful, e.g. your Holocaust remark. If you fail to understand it - then go ahead and keep failing. Done with this.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2022
  17. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Nope. I said nothing distasteful or offensive. If you're just going to distort and mischaracerize what I said as a way of getting me to back down, then you've only further proven my point. I'm just glad that you don't have the power to throw me in prison.

    BTW, the Holocaust was real and actually happened. Happy? I shouldn't have had to say it because I was OBVIOUSLY not saying otherwise.

  18. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Whether the "left behind" are justified in their complaints isn’t the point. How they perceive their situation is what motivates them. Take a look at the death rates among rural whites by suicide and opioid overdose. Despair is written there I think.
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Funny how this same group gets all Darwinian when it is suggested that "other" people might need help, usually calling it things like "socialism" and "communism." But when they need help, the supply of bootstraps becomes quite short.
  20. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    What was asserted was that the Electoral College and senate are not democratic. It does not follow that fixing that problem would take ALL power from the minorities. The way it works now according to recent history is that the President of the USA is commonly elected with a minority of the population voting for them. That is by definition undemocratic. Fixing that problem would not mean that minorities have no power. It would simply mean that we would elect our President based on a simple majority of the vote.

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