Leftist Antifa calls for revolution: hangs Trump effigy

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, May 4, 2018.

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  1. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Alas, I cannot. So far my pledge to HM Queen Elisabeth in right of Canada must prevail. Maybe some day :) In the meantime, I rejoice of the fact that our countries are close allies. on in the battlefield.
    And yeah, my country is a constitutional monarchy, as well as a parliamentary democracy. Just as yours is a Presidential republic and Constitutional democracy. As I said: allies.

    Tell me more about why you thought relevant to mention my ethnic background in connection with my assumed loyalties. Because this looks like yet another little sign of how, pledging yourself to Trump, you feel obligated to fly "deplorable" "anti-PC" colours. Even though your God-Emperor currently does nor require this from your person, nor will he reward you for this. This I fear more that any of Trump's official acts: corrosion of people's minds and souls.
     
  2. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, don't.
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    No one was debating you about healthcare. It wasn't even the topic of conversation.
     
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Decimon, earlier today: "If you think it's expensive now then just wait until it's free", in response of me bringing up healthcare as a (Bernie's) point to complex relationship between personal freedom and what is labeled "economic freedom".
    You're completely justified in missing this side point. Yet, even if you did, I don't see why you felt compelled to intervene to "keep me on topic". What gives?
     
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    You know the old joke "How do you know someone went to Harvard?" Let's just say one could tell a similar joke about Canadians talking about healthcare.

    Anyway, you said "you guys". Don't summon me if you don't want me to appear. ;)
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Well, you see, we have this chip on our collective shoulders, and feel the need to feel superior about something; specifically, over the US. Well, healthcare is the one thing where it's consistently and legitimately the case. Even in hockey, it's not. That's why it keeps coming up. Of course, Canada didn't get things miraculously right in this regard; it just looks that way on account of US messing up access to healthcare issue to such a colossal degree.

    By happy coincidence, it also nicely undermines Right's economic dogma.
     
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's true.

    Well... not if you're referring to an actual free market, which doesn't at all describe the U.S. healthcare system At this point ours is more a corporatist system that draws from the worst aspects of every other sort of system (overregulation, state action, and cronyism). Who knows, single payer might well be better for a lot of people.

    On the other hand, I wanted to see an ophthalmologist for minor surgery last week, so with no appointment I went to the office of one I'd seen once two years ago, asked whether I could be seen that day, and was told, sure, have a seat. I got the surgery 90 minutes later, and paid a total of forty dollars out of pocket. I'm not sure whether that's how it works in Canada, but I just didn't feel radicalized by the experience.
     
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    True that. American healthcare is a lobbyist-designed system aimed at extracting the most money. It's not a free market (not sure it can even exist given extreme information asymmetry between a patient and a provider). Yet, this is what "free marked" advocates keep defending. In fact, I don't think economic Right is about freedom anymore; they don't seem to be incensed by corporate welfare so much. It looks like a hatred for poor people, perhaps rationalized using fction like "Atlas Shrugged".
    BTW, I don't believe I said "single payer" here, although it does seem to work comparatively better. Universal coverage relates to "single payer" as an end to means.

    Yeah well, you know the weaknesses of this argument, right? The fact that, I dunno, for example, the majority of people did not have any negative experience with American law enforcement and justice system (I know I didn't) doesn't mean that there are no problems with, eg., for profit prison industrial complex, or over-policing.
    And, yeah, I needed a minor, 45-minute surgery while in US, and an "in-network" hospital for my crappy health insurance quoted $40,000 for the room (doctor and anesthesiologist extra) - which was about $37,500 higher than the coverage limit. I was able to scramble and find a better deal, but come on. And this is far, far, far from the worst horror story where the patient is not even uninsured.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    The sorts of people who go to Washington to extract value from the public are depicted in Ayn Rand's books as villains, not heroes. If you don't like what she said that's fine, but what you're doing there is a straw man so big they could use it at Burning Man.

    But I suppose your confusion is understandable, because you're absolutely right that there's an awful lot of hypocrisy among supposed conservatives when it comes to economic freedom. I include in that basically any Trump supporter who ever talked about free markets, since trade wars, immigration restrictions, and military interventionism are all starkly contrary to that.

    That's true. I referred to it because it seems to be the most common proposal from the mainstream left for universal coverage in the U.S. I don't see a UK-style system being on the table here, like at all.

    I wasn't claiming my experience was the median, I was asking because many Canadians I've seen seem to praise the homogeneity of experience that people there have with that system, so I was curious whether you all would typically enjoy an experience similar to what happened to me in the U.S.
     
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Fair enough, but that's not what I said. A lot of "conservative" politicians like to break into preaching using Randian rhetoric. I'm thinking Paul Ryan, for example. He does a lot of what her villains do, but weren't they mostly collectivist in her books?
    And you're right: I don't like much of what she's saying.

    True. Trump won in part by distancing from "economic freedom" orthodoxy. Having said that, preaching said orthodoxy is part and parcel of modern conservatism along with trade wars, immigration restrictions, and military interventionism. Yes, that's contradictory; as I said, they are about the almighty dollar and the hatred for the poor, not any coherent set of beliefs.


    Getting specialist appointment for the same day? Haven't tried; I think that would be unlikely, especially in Quebec and some underserved areas. My own experience with Canadian healthcare was clearly positive, on balance. I could finally afford to address some (partially covered) healthcare needs that were out of reach even when my wife had full benefits from a public employer (best plan in our county) - that, as a new immigrant. Also, I got laid off few weeks before wife gave birth - which did not affect her OHIP-covered hospital experience at all. This is what I mean, not how long it takes to wait for appointments. Frankly, I'd take that over ophthalmologist walk ins - even though I'm in federal public service and would in theory have pretty good coverage without OHIP (our union would take care of that).
     

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