Last All-Male Military College to Admit Women

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah but....

Unless you dramatically lower PFT standards across the board to accomodate females, that's not going to happen, unless you're okay with dramatically lowering overall standards.

The ultimate Urban Legend, right there.

I never saw any Infantry out of shape in the field. The few that managed to get that way were put on PFT-profile, confined to barracks except for PT/meals, and given a certain amount of time to pass the PFT. If they didn't, they got a General Discharge.

You couldn't have used a worse analogy. Skin color is a benign, non-behavioral characteristic. Sexual drive is probably our most powerful characteristic.

You can't force people to change what is ingrained into their genetic code. Males want to "get it on" with females at almost any cost, and, to a lesser extent, vice-versa. No amount of discipline is going to change that.

Having never been in the Navy, I'll take your word for it, but it does seem like there are a lot less brute-strength jobs in the Navy than in the Army & Marines.

Want to get the biggest runaround you'll ever see? Call the Navy Department, ask for one of their PR people, then ask them what the pregnancy rate is for female sailors aboard ships at sea for lengthy deployments. When the phone don't ring, you'll know who it is.

 

Bruce,

When were at Fort Benning for basic?

I was in E 1/50th during the summer of '89 and E 2/58th during the summer of '90 (split-option). Completing Infantry basic training and AIT during the heat of the Georgia summers sucked!

.......

The only females I saw during basic and AIT was the cafeteria ladies. It wasn't pleasant.

I remember one of the drill sergeant's girlfriends walking in the company area one day, after weeks of not seeing a single, good-looking female, the next thing I heard was, "ATTENTION, ABOUT FACE!" That ended the gawking.

 

1983-84, at the lovely Harmony Church Acres. Was that still open when you were there?

 

Harmony Church was being used for the OPSEC threat and commo training when I was there.

The barracks at Harmony Church were very similar to what I stayed in during my ROTC Advanced Camp days at Fort Bragg.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah but....

Seabees (not the equipment operators)? I was a Combat Engineer and that, at times, was an excercise in brute strength.

 

Bruce,

I agree with you 100%. People who have not served in Combat Arms units do not differentiate between soldiers in infantry, armor, artillery units and the REMFs (like myself) who serve in support units. As a maintenance platoon leader and later company commander, my day-to-day job requirements were far different than my combat arms counterparts. Except for our informal unit insignia painted in the motor pool (skull and crossbones w/ crossed wrenches underneath and the motto "Death by Direct Support Maintenance) and daily PT, there were long stretches when the environment seemed more like college than the Army. Developing maintenance-oriented individual skills was our training priority and our stated goals was to quickly repair and return equipment to the field.

For the uninitiated, combat arms units stress teamwork and unit cohesion. The warrior ethos is always present in such units and the esprit de corps is built largely on the members' perception of the exclusivity of their unit to only those who can meet the standard. The reality is that females in such an environment inevitably lead to a lowering of physical performance standards and with it, the loss of the warrior mentality.

Females are an invaluable part of today's Army but their value is limited to career fields which do not require lots of time in the field nor rely on brute strength or physical prowness. When you add in the sexual dimension (another discussion in and of itself) it makes the inclusion of females in combat arms units a huge negative. It may not be PC (hey, it isn't) but that's the reality.

 

REMF

Army jargon - REMF

Rear Echelon Mother F#*ker

This refers to someone who serves in a rear area support unit such as supply, maintenance, transportation, etc. with minimal time spent in the field.

military dictionary

 

Re: REMF

Of course, without them, the military would grind to an immediate halt.

 

This is something that I have also seen in ROTC, as a platoon leader, and later as a company commander. As much as I am for equality, there is no denying that physical standards are lowered to accommodate. While it may be fine for some careers, it makes some tasks very difficult in the Army (i.e. digging foxholes, erecting tents, carrying a rucksack, etc…). Don’t get me wrong, there are some women that have no problem with these tasks and there are some males that do have problems with these tasks, but from my 16+ years experience in the Army, they are not the norm.