Ks Dentist with MD degree from UHSA-Antigua loses appeal on use of MD title

Re: 8 weeks?

Galanga,

No. Dr. Thomas (He is a Licensed Dentist, so I will call him Doctor) use of the M.D. designation could mislead the public to believe that he was in fact a licensed physician, not that his education and training is similar to that of a licensed M.D.

It's not a fact that Dr. Thomas recieved a medical degree in only 8 weeks of medical training. From what I understand about UHSA, Dr. Thomas did an 8 week residency training at UHSA which was required of any student doing distance learning. It is the same with some non-medical distance learning programs which require the student to attend on campus for an amount of time. UHSA required that all student attend on campus for 8 weeks before continuing into their distance learning program.

Because of this, the courts brought up the issue that he only spent 8 weeks on campus. The board, not the judge, considered this to be inferior to a traditional medical school which I would have to agree. Since Dr. Thomas did not apply for licensure, the board would not have access to Dr. Thomas academic record. They would have no way to determine what Dr. Thomas did after the 8 weeks he spent on campus at UHSA. Nonetheless, this was not the reason they did not want Dr. Thomas to use the M.D. title.
Had this been the issue, the board would have presented Dr. Thomas' academic record to prove that he in fact did no further studies after the 8 weeks and was issued a MD degree. The board presented no further evidence to this fact and only made the mention of his 8 weeks at UHSA and how they felt about it.
Had Dr. Thomas did a residency program, taken the USMLE and obtain ECFMG certification and still did not apply for licensure but used the M.D. title, the 8 weeks probably would not have come up. The board would have still sought to injoin Dr. Thomas from using the M.D. title simply because according to their law, no non licensed physician can use the M.D. title because this could lead the public to misbelieve that the individual is a licensed physician.

I advise anyone who has question about this case and has a friend that is a lawyer or knows about the law to have then read over the disposition. I'm sure that they will tell you the same as I'm telling you now.

Dr.2B

 

Re: Interesting ruling!

Hi Delta,

Most foreign medical school don't offer the MD degree until one has specialized which is usually after the MBBS degree. For most countries the MBBS degree is awarded once they've completed undergraduate studies. They then go on to specialize which they are then awarded the MD degree. In the US, we do not have an undergraduate medical school. So, we have the MD degree after undergraduate school.

It is legal for any MBBS graduate to use the MD initals as long as the the graduate has done a residency here in the US, passed the USMLE, obtained ECFMG certification and is licensed to practice medicine. In fact, that is exactly what most foriegn medical graduates do who hold an MBBS. I've have seen some physicians who list MBBS, MD after their name. This is legal since they are medical doctors.

As far as the CV, you are correct. However, a medical board does not have your CV unless you supply it to them. Most people supply a CV when they seek licensure, are seeking a residency here in the US or looking for a job. The CV is used to confirm that one has actually met the requirement set forth by the state and also list such things as where you did your clinicals, where you did your residency, any other accomplishments and rather or not you hold a license in another state/country.

To relate this to this thread in point, say that I graduated from medical school this year. I go and work as a surgical assistant because I have no desire to be licensed. I'm only using the MD after my name to increase my pay rate, add to my creditbility and perhaps open a few doors that are closed to non-MD's. The board get wind of this and takes me to court. The only way for them to get ahold of my academic records is to have the courts order my academic records for purpose of proving that I have not met the requirements to use the MD after my name. Your academic records are not public information. No one can call your school up and demand to see your academic records unless they have a court order to do so or your signature granting the school permission to do so. At least at all the schools I have gone to in my life will not do this. One can not call the school up and pay the academic transcript fee and have them mail it off to an address. At the schools I attended, one would have to pay the academic transcript fee and send in a letter with your name and signature on the letter to verify that it is you and not someone else.

Now, if I'm mistaking, someone please correct me.

-Dr.2B

 

foreign degree titles

Delta,

Interesting. The Puerto Rico Bar authorities require the applicant to possess a "titulo del derecho" which they define as graduation from an ABA accredited law school. From this, I'd guess that at least in ONE U.S. possession, one shouldn't claim a law degree, foreign or domestic, unless it's on the up-and-up.

BTW: the Bar exam questions are in Spanish but the answers may be written in English or Spanish. (Yes, I've thought about it. My Spanish IS good enough, I think. Barely. Maybe.)

BTW also: This discussion adds some weight to my frantic screechings elsewhere that no one should ever pursue a so-called non-Bar J.D.!

 

What part of 'inferior' education ruling does our online med student not understand?

http://www.dentalwatch.org/reg/thomas.html

 

examples of other online med schools

SOME SCHOOLS WHERE YOU CAN ATTEND VIRTUALLY IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY (study closely the 'faculty' of these schools and try and figure their qualifications)



College of Medicine-St. Lucia

http://www.itgworld.com/MP_MD/


University of Health Sciences-Antigua

http://www.uhsa.ag



IUHS-St. Kitts

http://www.iuhs.edu

They appear to be placing 'schools' in other places and intend to

issue medical degrees from IUHS's location...rather complex issues are being

raised in India, the home country of the ownership of this school.





St. Luke

http://www.stluke.edu/ (no one is certain where they are located these days since the war is going on in that area)



OUMS-Samoa "Considering going to Medical School?

Let Medical School come to you! "

http://www.e-oum.net/



someone asked how long do you have to attend? Some of these schools don't even require you show up for your diploma..just that your check is on time.

 

Boyoboy am I glad to see you, Dean!

Since this is an English-optional thread , perhaps the old Carpathian may mix a metaphor (shaken, not stirred):
I have held the fort long enough, and now I have other bridges to burn.

I leave the swatting of this particular shill game in your competent hands,
o Ishkabibble or whatever whozits said you were.

Ecrasez l'infame!

Yore buddy,
Janko Preotul

 

azskeptic/dean

Janko, thank you...I'm here...hey, here is another interesting piece of the med school picture

These countries don't have UK charters or recognition but are actually teaching the students in England

European School of Medicine (liberia) http://www.euromedicine.org/ (correspondence school)
St. Christophers (chartered in Senegal) http://www.stchris.edu
Kigezi (chartered in Ghana) http://www.kigezi.edu
Medical College of London (Monterrat in the Carib.) http://www.stchris.edu
(correspondence school)
London Medical College (St. Kitts) http://www.iuhs.edu/html/campuses.html
(correspondence school)

Must be alot of students with computers that want to live in ENgland?

 

Uh huh. You can tell the ones at the Montserrat school because of their volcanic temperament and ashen look.

 

moteserrat

yes indeed...in fact their website has more action than the island probably does under the volcanic ash

Medical College of London (Monterrat in the Carib.)
http://www.mcl-edu.co.uk/

 

English

"Since this is an English-optional thread" quote by Uncle Janko

As far as I am concerned, anyone who can attend medical school in a language other than their native tongue, must be a genius!

 

Here's one!

Dean, add this one to your list of virtual medical schools. I found it on a previous degreeinfo posting.

http://www.vanguard-university.info/

Apparently there are many medical schools offering the basic science curriculum through distant learning. I don't know of any in the USA. However, there are dozens of Nurse Practitioner Schools where one is able to complete the didactic portion online. Although clinical experience of 600 to 700 hours is required.

Here are a few:

St. Louis University
Graceland University
University of South Alabama

US State Boards are allowing graduates of these nurse practitioner schools to practice with autonomy and prescriptive privileges.

I feel your argument about the quality of medical education, at least the basic sciences portion, has some validity, especially from a foreign school that may or may not exist.

I guess the only assurance we can have is that the institution was evaluated and accredited by its host sovereign country and summarily listed with the World Health Organization as a bonafide medical school.

However, I also feel that distant learning whether it be online, closed circuit, correspondence, satellite, etc. has been proven to be an effective and quality tool of learning.

Today in the United States, distant learning, at least in part, is certainly a commonly used tool for obtaining, or keeping current with medical education. I think it is only a matter of time when we will see the basic sciences offered through distant learning.

 

Re: Here's one!

Vanguard isn't listed with WHO in either Cameroon or Costa Rica so anyone who goes there won't get licensed..

I don't oppose distance learning for some things but most of these schools are 100% distance learning.....and little or no supervision. Somehow I don't think that these inovations will come out of new medical schools.

az skeptic

 

Dean,
I agree that a 100% distant learning medical school is absurd!

Even the USA nurse practitioner schools require some residency and certainly hands on clinical experience supervised by doctors or other nurse practitioners. I can't imagine a medical doctor getting licensed with 100% distant learning. You are right! Totally bogus!

 

distance medical school

wht makes these programs bogus is that they do the science program distance learning totally and then they find their own 'clinical supervision' (not all but most of them do) which are called mentors sometimes. They do not have formal agreements with the hospitals since the students find them. There is NO residency requirement for some of the schools..some require as little as 8 weeks....they give advanced credit for dental/chiropractic/veternarian/pharmacy/nursing degrees and they accept diploma mill BA degrees or BS degrees. They do not require MCAT testing like normal medical schools. Your admittance is your check, as one person put it.

Why you need face to face contact with students/supervisors is that candidly some of these students should not be in med school and will wash out. The better programs (Ross/AUC/SGU/SMU) report as high as 60% washout but they do not allow distance learning and supervise their students; you can imagine without supervision that students don't get the help they need.

NP,PA's are put in fairly rigorous training and constantly being asked questions by their supervisors....if you are just a person shadowing a doctor in a hospital who knows what you are being taught and there is no consistancy..how do you know if the graduates of the program can be trusted if you are a residency director?

For those reasons I oppose distance learning until some research is done by long term medical schools to see what works,etc.

az skeptic/Dean

 

Just out of curiosity, did this dentist from Kentucky actually get licensed as an MD in Antigua, or was his MD some sort of honorary MD?

My guess is that he probably would have been fine if he used the initials M.D.(Hon)
or Honorary M.D. or something like that.

 

Antigua won't license a non-Antiguan citizen I don't think He was awarded an MD degree after graduating from the acclerated program:


http://www.uhsa.ag/pstudent/oms/ntpath.htm

Reading that it says they are required to spend 1 week on campus total.

They do NO science because the school accepts their DDS degree as equivalent to science portion of their medical studies (this isn't done in the US medical school).

 

"There is NO residency requirement for some of the schools..some require as little as 8 weeks....they give advanced credit for dental/chiropractic/veternarian/pharmacy/nursing degrees and they accept diploma mill BA degrees or BS degrees. " quote by Dean.

After all these loopholes, do these graduates actually get licensed to practice medicine in the country they graduated from?

I am not talking about US licensure and all the crap that goes with it but about a graduate getting a license to practice in lets say Antigua, Liberia, Samoa, etc?

 

look at faculty at St. Luke

here is another one of the schools

St. Luke

take a look at the faculty listing:

http://www.stluke.edu/faculty.html

You have 'professors' who are still in residencies themselves. You have faculty members with degrees that can't be licensed (ND degree from Southern is not recognized by states that license naturopaths),etc.

I can take you through each of these schools and show you similiar things. It is scary.

You turn loose a bunch of students who think they are medical students onto the world community and that is scary also.

 

licensure

I do not believe that they can license their degrees because they are being given MD degrees and the countries they are from recognize MBBS,since they are on the British system,though independent now from the UK.

 

Apparently, Antigua not only will not license UHSA M.D.s, it won't allow USHA students to do clinical work in Antigua!