ICN Business School's Online Doctor of Business Administration

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by TEKMAN, Jul 5, 2022.


    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    Dustin likes this.
  2. AsianStew

    AsianStew Moderator Staff Member

    Très bien! Very good! That's under $30K USD!
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Great rep. Established 1905. "Triple Crown." Not Preakness, Belmont and Kentucky Derby "Triple Crown" but AACSB EQUIS and AMBA. That puts it in the top 2% of Euro. business schools. That's solid.
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    From the website: "DBA graduates receive both a university degree (“diplôme d’université”) of Doctor in Business Administration from Jean Moulin University and the title of Executive Doctor in Business Administration from ICN & the Business Science Institute."

    If I'm reading that correctly, the degree is awarded by Jean Moulin University, which is not AACSB-accredited. Jean Moulin does appear to otherwise award its own doctorates, including a PhD in Management.

    It appears Jean Moulin is ranked around 1,200th in the world.

    I see they (ICN) also offer a PhD in Management for about a third of the cost (it seems). It's not clear if that can be done at a distance, however. Both programs say the place of study is "Nancy, France," but the DBA speaks specifically to being online.

    Further, if I'm reading it correctly, the PhD is actually awarded by ICN: "The degree awarded is a PhD in Management (Doctor of Philosophy in Management) and is conferred by ICN Business School."

    Nancy, France, is about a 250-mile drive east from Paris.
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  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    QUOTE="Rich Douglas, post: 571647, member: 114"]From the website: "DBA graduates receive both a university degree (“diplôme d’université”) of Doctor in Business Administration from Jean Moulin University and the title of Executive Doctor in Business Administration from ICN & the Business Science Institute."[/QUOTE]
    Good catch, Rich. I missed that completely. And it wasn't even fine print - I just didn't read the whole thing. Yep - the school (ICN) is triple-accredited but your actual degree isn't from there. Mea culpa - mea maxima culpa. A good lesson for me.

    BTW - Jean Moulin U. - "Moulin" is "Mill" in English, ...but I doubt that's significant here.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes. And Nancy is listed as the location of about two dozen legit centres of higher education -- and one famous clinker: École Supérieure Robert de Sorbon. Oh yes - we have many, many threads - and threats of the week.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Unless, of course, the degree of "Executive Doctor in Business Administration"--issued by both ICN and the Luxembourg school--has academic meaning.
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I wondered about that. When I re-read the page, after your comments, I noted they say you get a "title" not a degree, of 'Executive Doctor etc." And you get a "certificate" showing it, no use of "degree" or "diploma" -- so I assumed "Executive Doctor etc." might not have meaning as an academic degree, whereas the DBA from Jean Moulin U., “diplôme d’université” did. I could be wrong of course -- but that was my thinking.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    After I saw Johann and your responses; I went back and read more details. It seems to be more complicated. I am wondering if graduates receive both DBA?
    "DBA graduates receive both a university degree (“diplôme d’université”) of Doctor in Business Administration from Jean Moulin University and the title of Executive Doctor in Business Administration from ICN & the Business Science Institute."

    It sounds your studies will be collaborated with Business Science Institute, and you'll earn a DBA from Jean Moulin University and an Executive DBA from ICN & the Business Science Institute. The only question are these credentials Doctorate level, or just simple graduate certificates.
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    After Rich's post and re-reading the site, I think it's this way: You receive a DBA degree from Jean Moulin University, which is lesser-ranked than ICN and does not have Triple Crown accreditation. You also receive a cert. that says Exective DBA from ICN. That one does not appear to have any true academic significance. I see it as a non-degree - and not a grad cert. either. It's an ...um, award, I'm thinking. If I'm wrong, somebody please tell me.

    So yes, you get a perfectly valid DBA degree - but it's not from higher-status ICN. Never liked dual awards. They always remind me of Swiss Cantonal thingies, low-end Latin American schools and the Uni. of Wales debacle. Ces prix n'ont pas leur place en France. (These awards have no place in France).

    If you like ICN - get an all-ICN degree. They have them.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    But you'll probably have to stay in Nancy and go to class there. Which isn't such a bad thing -- but it costs.
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    One potential difference: Jean Moulin University is a mainstream public French university, part of the University of Lyon. I believe their business school is AMBA, and in fact the private Luxembourg business school involved has AMBA as well. It may compare favorably to North American degrees in the same price range.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    All true, Stanislav. But it's NOT triple crown, as ICN is - and this whole thing is advertised by ICN and some people (including me) thought that an ICN degree is awarded. And apparently it's not. If you get your ice cream cone without the chocolate sprinkles you ordered, you're ticked - and you ask for them, right?

    You can't do that when you find there's no ICN on your actual degree. I say - if you want Jean Moulin (and many would) - go to Jean Moulin. If you want ICN - make sure it's an ICN degree. This setup was good enough to slip past me - I have a hard time with that. I won't forget. Ever.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  14. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    Sounds like this may be a Propio Doctorate degree or would be evaluated similarly by a NACES evaluator either as a non-accredited program or no degree (possibly graduate certificate) with just credits. Validential would probably give it full recognition though.
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    My reaction was similar. I thought about how cool it would to do the 3 years in Nancy to get the PhD. Their description of the process evoked visions of joining a family of scholars and becoming one yourself. I've been wondering how to talk my wife into tolerating me in another degree program. Living in France would probably do it! (She loves France.)
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  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think not.

    (1)The ICN piece of paper is just that. A piece of paper.
    (2) An "award" at best - carefully designed to be devoid of academic significance.
    (3) The University (ICN) is not granting you a degree. They let another school do that.
    (4) The propio concept is that of a different country.
    (5) The Jean Moulin degree is real.
    (6) These things are what they are.
    (7) Even the most wildly optimistic constructs will not get different results.
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Go for it, Rich! Three doctorates, one a Triple Crown and three years in France! I'd certainly envy you! I'd probably not fit in at PhD level. I'd more likely play guitar until they kicked me out of the bistro, taverne or whatever, then go wandering... like the jongleurs * of the Middle Ages. Or maybe try to get into the fashion biz in my 80s... That's where my interest is, mostly, these days. :)

    * Jongleurs: These guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It's that last one that I find so attractive. Being part of something like that and being immersed in it for 3 years would be amazing.

    I've gotten zero mileage out of my second doctorate, so the third would mean as little. (The learning in the second has been invaluable, however.) But the fun....
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  19. MK1980

    MK1980 New Member

    The “diplôme d’université” is not accredited by the Ministry of Higher Education. It is only accredited by the university itself. In other words, it functions like a propio degree.

    Here's a link explaining what a diplôme d’université means in France. You can use google translate.
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Wow. This started out as controversial, but now it's MURKY. I didn't expect that. Instead of a "dual degree" we're edging closer to NO degree - at least no unassailable, Ministry-approved degree. This is getting worse than I thought -- from ostensibly good schools, too. "Surprised" is too mild a word... no wonder I've long had a dislike for "dual awards."

    @Rich Douglas Just a suggestion, Rich. Maybe hold off on the third doctorate, but go to France anyway. I know you and Mrs Douglas will have a great time.

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