HOW TO IDENTIFY AN ILLEGITIMATE SCHOOL

Hi BillyD:

You sure sound bitter.

When you criticize St. Kitts, you are also pointing fingers at the veterinarian (Ross University, St. Kitts) who examined the beef you ate, for "mad cow disease" or did he not do a good job?

You sure are a "SIZE" guy - judging all by shape and size - that's unscientific and unacceptable. It is surely amusing to those of us who are familiar with the operation of Berne University, as a solid institution of higher learning.

Good bye and good luck Billy D.
The MIGS paradox should be a lesson to you so-called DL pundits. I had warned this group about MIGS, and that it is not listed in the International Handbook of Universities, but shady John and Rich apparently produced questionable and ambiguous e-mails to deceive the public. I am writing to UNESCO to have the MIGS matter, and John and Rich's involvement investigated.

When all is said and done, Regional Accreditation (USA) and listing in the International Handbook of Universities, remain the only indicators of acceptability, excellence and peace of mind
with respect to qualifications.

Here are some references re: International Handbook of Universities-
http://www.convergemag.com/Publications/CNVGOct99/Bear/InClose.shtm http://www.s-t.com/daily/04-98/04-22-98/c04op115.htm http://www.uwec.edu/Admin/Admissions/Transfer.htm http://www.tesc.edu/prospective/military/navy_college/faqs.php http://www.lbcc.cc.or.us/admissions/regulat.html http://discover.lib.calpoly.edu/datagenie/index.jsp?catid=1325 http://www.hofstra.edu/Libraries/Axinn/axinn_bibliogr_studybiw.cfm http://www7.tamu-commerce.edu/hreeo/job/hr160.htm http://www.barry.edu/ed/Leadership/phdadmiss.htm http://nrc.uchsc.edu/ohio/oh2-u026.htm http://www.lib.duke.edu/reference/studyabroad.html http://depts.washington.edu/ipe/stu/prog_html/we.htm http://www.ece.umr.edu/handbook/grad/Section_2.2.html http://chronicle.com/jobs/2000/10/2000101301c.htm

 

UWI,

Rich enrolled in a MIGS degree program for a brief period (then opted out), and John agreed to serve as an advisor for his dissertation. What is there to investigate?

While you are communicating with UNESCO, would you ask them if Potchefstroom University ( www.puk.ac.za ) is a good school? I would not want to be "investigated" several months/years down the road.

Russell

 

Why is UWIJAMAICA, this supposed "evaluation specialist," so obsessed with defending Berne University? He doesn't seem interested in documenting the wonderfulness of this university and its graduates in response to others' detailed questions. The existence of a school as questionable as Berne in St. Kitts certainly indicates that that country is a haven for degree mills. Why don't all the other ACI-accredited schools just move themselves to St. Kitts? Then they can garner avid spokespersons like UWIJAMAICA.

 

Hi Russell:

Stay away from the MIGS matter, it extends beyond this board. The investigation I am requesting relates to the circulation of questionable documents, and apparent incestuous educational relationships.

In the future, please perform a comprehensive assessment before embarking on a program, unless a good quality education is not your objective.

You made a good choice with POTCH, but it is disappointing that you are not confident about it. Here is the information from the 16th edition of the International Handbook of Universities:

POTCHEFSTROOM UNIVERSITY FOR CHRISTIAN HIGHER EDUCATION
http://www.puk.ac.za

Founded 1869, and by Act of Parliament became an independent university in 1951

Staff: 654
Language: Afrikaans & English

 

UWIJamaica writes:
"Guys, the truth is, while in the USA, you may tolerate and recognize bogus degrees and degress from "less than wonderful" schools, WE in the Caribbean have ZERO tolerance for such practices."

John Bear responds:
Comes now Eastern Caribbean University, run from a private home in Smithville, Texas, offering degrees of all kinds apparently based on writing a few movie reviews -- and fully accredited by the government of St. Kitts (until it was closed down by US authorities).

Oh, and how about the phony British West Indies School of Medicine, which operated for quite a few years, until its proprietor was imprisoned just a few months ago.

And then there's the flagrant degree mill called Montserrat University, operated for some years from there.

I could go on. And on.

As I've often written here, I have seen my role as helping my readers make the best decisions for themselves by giving them relevant information.

If I were considering a degree that reliable research has shown that 89% of US registrars are unlikely to accept, I might say,

(a) Hmm. Do I want to take that chance?
or
(b) Ah, but the registrar at the school where I teach now does accept it, so that's good enough for me.

Your advice to me:
"LEAVE WELL ALONE"

My reply:
No.

 

Dear John:
You sure are desperate for information to keep you afloat. You are hanging on to straw.

The schools you listed were never incorporated, approved nor accredited by any Caribbean government. Their operators tried to use the prestige of the Commonwealth Caribbean to further their business. I recall how disgusted the Government of St. Kitts was when they discovered that Eastern---- had mentioned St. Kitts on their web site - the St. Kitts Government acted swiftly and informed all foreign embassies and high commissions.

This happens all the time in the UK and the USA where people like your DL peer, Sister Maxine constantly claim existence in States that know nothing about her operation.

 

1. Which e-mails were these? I have been anything BUT questionable and/or ambiguous.

2. Gee, I didn't know UNESCO was an investigating body. Try Interpol.

3. MIGS is included in the IHU under the CEU's listing. The copy UNESCO sent me reads as such. I didn't have anything to do with the listing. I don't believe John did, either. In fact, it was finding out that the IHU would include the CEU with MIGS that swayed both of us that the MIGS relationship to the CEU might be legitimate.

4. These are laughable, especially when coming from someone who refuses to even identify himself (which I've already asked him to do). This person will go away and come back as someone else (like I'm sure he has before). Gutless.

Rich Douglas

 

UWI,

But I am confident with Potch, just curious as to how it would be viewed in Jamaica--in case I ever take vacation there! I would not want to be strolling the countryside, accosted, then investigated for having a non-GAAP degree.

Russell

Russell

 

As UWIJAMAICA is well aware, the issue is not the fact that Berne is accredited or GAAP. The issue is not even the quality of the education (none of us to my knowledge has any experience with Berne). The issue is recongition of the degrees outside of St. Kitts. That is where UWI comes in because foreign evaluators appear to look to them in the abscence of experience with accreditation by St. Kitts. If I want to use a Berne degree with my organization and it is presented as a foreign degree it will have to be evaluated by a recognized foreign credential evaluator. Based on that it appears that Berne has some problems unless UWIJamaica has new information.

If I were Berne U I would be cultivating a good relationship with UWI so that an agreement to recongize degrees and graduates could be formulated. That appears like it would be beneficial to US graduates.

Since UWI Jamaica is in the know...what happended to Dale Berne who seems to have disappeared?? Did he sell the school??

North

 

Hardly...he wrote an accurate account, as usual.

<SNIP>

Maxine Asher and John Bear may be contemporaries, but they're certainly not peers. One is a degree mill operator and the other is a highly-regarded expert on institutions offering nontraditional educational modes such as distance education. Most of us here learned the difference some time ago. Have you? Here's a hint: Dr. Bear is highly respected in this forum. If you wish to defame him, may I suggest alt.education.distance? You'll find yourself quite at home with your previously manufactured alter egos.

Mark

 

I might also add that Dr. Bear did quite a fair write up on Berne U on degree.net. It presented the situation plainly and without any negativity.

It really is up to you UWIJAMAICA if you wish to present the case for Berne's recognition beyond some areas of the Caribbean. You can do that by presenting evidence that Berne is recognized by UWI or it's graduates accepted based on their degrees. Personally, I would welcome another viable DL option (I like the social service Ph.D). At the moment without the recognized foreign credential evaluators approval the Berne degree would not be worth too much to me.

North

 

This kind of vague innuendo is a sign of addle-mindedness. There are no "questionable documents," circulated or otherwise. Put up or shut up, Mr. Nobody. I've been talking about MIGS quite candidly for more than a year. First, supportive of the idea and hopeful as a potential doctoral student. (And, subsequently, as a doctoral candidate, though I did no academic studies with MIGS.) Then, highly dubious as I sorted out the facts and realities, much with the help of Tom, Gus, BillD, and many others. Finally, disgusted, I left.

Oh, please, please, pleeeeeeeese, reprint even one such "questionable document." Pretty please?

An anonymous moron making unsubstantiated--and rather vague--insinuations is hardly a source of authority. But silence in the face of such absurdity is not exactly my approach. So put up or shut up.

(The only reason I do this is that this person is free to post such drivel. I should also be free to respond in kind. Shut down this slanderous behavior and I, too, will stop.)

Rich Douglas

 

UWIJAMAICA, you were very eager to defend Berne and so I welcome your response to recognition by UWI which is meaningful to foreign credential evaluators and therefore meaningful to US students. You have not presented anything yet. Keep in mind that I have nothing against Berne (except some early accreditation blunders with unrecognized agencies which could have been ingnorance). I would welcome their recognition as they would be another option. So present your case.

I am reminded of a Peter Sellers movie the name of which I can't remember. It is about a small state no one has ever heard of that declares war on the US to get federal aid dollars after it loses (hopefully without anyone getting hurt). St. Kitts may be a fine country and Berne may be listed in the Handbook. Seriously, a hypothetical 1/4 mile long independent country (not St. Kitts) could accredit a university and get it listed. The question would always be recognition of the degree by outside sources and not whether the country legitimately recongized the school and the country is sovereign. In St. Kitts case this is beyond debate (the country is sovereign & recongized the school). But in terms of use by an American who needs a credential, in many cases the response is so what.

North

 

The Mouse That Roared and the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, from the novel by Leonard Wibberly.



------------------
Bill Gossett

 

Thanks! A classic.

North

 

I am curious about this as well.
Earon

 

North,

Perhaps we should give UWI the benefit of the doubt. Let us not forget that Thurston Howell University was accredited by Gilligan's Island, which is only three acres larger than your hypothetical country (not St. Kitts, of course). The only reason THU is not listed in the International Handbook of Universities is that they are still stranded on the island. When they get off the island, THU will have its place in the handbook, along with Berne and others.

Russell

 

How to Identify an Illegitimate School: if the mama institution and the papa institution never properly merged...uh, this is mixed company...Kristen, close your browser, please.

 

Kristin. Sorry