Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Jan 24, 2017.
Those who actually know the facts disagree with you.
Sweden Democrats: Trump was right | Fox News
Just out of curiosity, how do you know they know the facts?
The "about Sweden" is unnecessary there....
Perhaps because they're actually Swedish, and see what's really going on, without the filtered lens of US media?
Mr. mbwa shenzi, Swedish news reports disagree with your opinion.
Mr. mbwa shenzi, your point is taken. Subsequently, here is a Swedish news clip:
Skottlossning och bilbränder i Rinkeby - En vanligt vardag i förorten:
Klicka här (or click here)
And exactly what is that's going on?
Oh really? That's not my impression, and I've been following them pretty closely during the last couple of days. In the original language, as it happens.
Thank you. That's a clip from Aftonbladet TV, the TV channel of the very leftist tabloid Aftonbladet.
Using your head or losing your head in Islamic ideology
Mr. Mr. mbwa shenzi, the "Muslim immigrant news" issue goes far beyond Sweden. For example, the following news story is taken from a leftist rag (called Newsweek):
In Denmark, a non-Muslim is charged with "Blasphemy" for burning a Quran:
However, to give "equal time," here is an article from Jihad watch:
Islamic State vows to massacre Christians because: “Allah gave orders to kill every infidel”:
I was born and raised in Sweden.
Re the Sweden Democrats, I’m not particularly surprised to see them tell Fox that Trump was right. It’s a political party that has been adressing the immigration issue for twenty years now.
The question on immigration is an important one but I don’t think the Sweden Democrats know all the facts or that immigration is a threat to Swedish society. The Sweden Democrats don’t like to talk about it nowadays but the party actually has its origins in the Neo-Nazi movement.
Of course, they’ve come a long way since and the present leader is an intelligent guy and talented politician who has been pretty successful in cleaning out the most extreme racists, homophobics and anti semites. It hasn’t been possible for the party leadership to keep track of all weirdos though and not too long ago, a member of parliament was forced to leave the party for alleging that 80% of Swedish media was controlled by Jews. And for all their talk about law and and order, the Sweden Democrats are in a league of their own when it comes to criminal records.
That said, it’s in no way the same party it was in 1988 when it was founded and I guess it’s fair to say that they’ve gone mainstream. Some of their ideas are quite good but I disagree with them on the issue of immigration because I don’t think things are nearly as bad as they say. There are problems, but Swedish society is not on the brink of collapse or undergoing rapid islamization. It may interest you to know though that while Jimmie Åkesson, the leader of the Sweden Democrats, thinks that president Trump is right about immigration, he has also said that he’s not very impressed by him, because he thinks the president’s body language is weird and that many of his actions and suggestions are rushed and ill-considered.
Now, again: Ami Horowitz came to Sweden with an agenda, made some sort of documentary and edited the material in such a way that two of the policemen he interviewed have labelled it bad journalism and the film photographer has said that what the policemen say is correct. Part of this film was broadcast by Fox and apparently president Trump watched it. If Horowitz makes a film that doesn’t give a correct picture of the situation in Sweden, then president Trump, in his speech, is making a sweeping and incorrect statement. But while I think president Trumps image of Sweden is way to negative, I will, for the sake of balance, also say that I think president Obama’s image of Sweden was way to positive.
Six claims and facts about Sweden: a closer look at Ami Horowitz' report - The Local
Re the fourth claim made by Horowitz: he was accompanied into one of these no-go zones by Jan Sjunnesson, a Sweden Democrat who sometimes has interesting things to say on his website but who also has a let’s say rather relaxed attitude to facts.
And the riots in Rinkeby, as I see it, had more to do with deeply rooted criminal structures than with mass immigration. It may well be the case that the 17-year old who was arrested by the police is a Muslim but I haven't seen any information at all about his ethnicity.
I understand your concern but I'm not going to discuss religion with you. All I'm going to say is that on a personal level, Muslims in Sweden are a lot less scary to me than some of the activities of ultra-Orthodox members of the Jewish community.
But those are VERY reliable fake news sources mbwa shenzi! I love the 3 to 5 million "illegals (Trump's words) voted for Hillary, costing Trump the popular vote conspiracy theory. That is one of my Infowar favorites. :smile: Funny thing, is I haven't heard Trump go and on about investigating that lately. I wonder why?
Just to be clear, you do not wish to discuss religion with him, but you want to discuss religion. Just not "me again"?
02/22/17 "Trump is absolutely right about Sweden"
René Zografos | The Huffington Post
Unfortunately the 'article' is nearly instantly was scrubbed.
MSNBC Mika Brzezinski: "It is our job is to control what Americans think."
It is reminiscent of when MSNBC's Mika Brzezinski boldly declared that "It is our job is to control what American's think" (source).
The "corporatist mainstream media" has politically reached their ugly claws into the Huffington Post to forcibly remove the article. However, for your pleasure, it is reprinted here:
Title: Sweden has huge problems because of liberal immigration policy
Swedish Author: René Zografos
Snip: Many journalists around the world are eager to condemn Donald Trump no matter what. When he tweeted about immigration in Sweden few days ago, the social media exploded. Most of the opponent said that Trump had made up the immigration problem Sweden are having. They are wrong.
Only hours later there was a riot of violence and destructions by immigrants in the capitol of Sweden, Stockholm. The police was forced to shoot with ammunition to put and end to it. In Malmö, another city south in Sweden they have struggle with gang violence and lawlessness for years. So when Trump talk about that Sweden have an immigration problem he is actually spot on.
It’s well known for Scandinavians and other Europeans that liberal immigration comes with drugs, rapes, gang wars, robbery and violence. Additional to that we see the respective nations cultures fading away, for good and for bad.
But the immigration problem is not only a Swedish predicament. The truth is, that several European cities have huge immigration problems where even the police force is afraid to interfere in some locations in these cities. UK, France and several other European countries are changing rapidly with extreme quantity of immigration. I’m not saying immigration is only bad, but a lot of problems come with poor immigration policy, as consequences we get violence, terror and gangs. The fact is that the press here in Europe hasn’t doing their job properly. There is this fear for journalists to not report the basic truth - which is that Europe has enormous problems that comes from liberal immigration politics, and as we also now can see in Sweden, but also here in Norway. But it’s not political correct for journalists to say or write that immigration in Europe is unsuccessful. When that said, most of the people that come from other countries are behaving flawless and are a gift to our society, but then again to report that everything is all good is simply wrong and these journalists should find another job, because they do not have enough integrity that requires to be decent journalist.
Click here to see the original leftist scrubbed source.
Exactly. All Trump and his people have done is criticize the media for its over-the-top hysteria and naked bias. The media can dish critical attacks out quickly enough but they can't stand any criticism directed back at them. In their view that's supposedly an attack on democratic values and the first step towards fascism.
Of course, the alternative they favor would seemingly be a one-party China-style state with lock-step media all echoing the same political-social-cultural line. (What they favor is a lot closer to totalitarianism than anything Trump's done. In my opinion, Trump is a defense against totalitarianism through his dogged refusal to conform to any party line, Republican or Democrat.)
I still remember 2008 when there seemed to be a law that Obama's face had to be on the cover of every magazine and newspaper. The coverage all sounded like it was Jesus' second-coming, about how extraordinary and wonderful Obama's election was and about what a transformative event it was for the United States and for the world. (The Europeans [never the brightest bulbs even in the best of times] got swept up in all the madness and awarded Obama a Nobel Prize merely for having been elected... don't hold your breath until they do the same for Trump.)
It's ironic. Right after the unexpected results in the November election, a few voices in the media acknowledged that they hadn't covered, hadn't even been aware of, the half of the country that voted for Trump. (Nobody they knew in New York or Los Angeles voted for Trump, so who were these people??) They admitted that they might have to get out of their one-party coastal enclaves occasionally and visit the rest of "flyover" country and actually talk to the people there. And hopefully not caricaturize them as "idiots", "racists" and "rednecks".
But since the election, that intelligent (if belated) resolution has totally evaporated. The ostensibly "quality" media have doubled down on preaching to their true-believer big-city base. It's all about keeping that base from becoming disheartened by the election loss and about motivating them towards "resistance" against the United States federal government.
It's true. Trump won the 2016 election with extraordinarily little advertising and ground game. What motivated his voters to turn out was their support for his policies and the daily non-stop drumbeat of contempt directed at them in the media. It was basic human nature - "If you keep saying I'm shit, I'm sure as hell not going to listen to you."
Rule number one in rhetoric is that we have to make our opponents want to agree with us. Otherwise they won't. It's as simple as that. Four years of hysterical insults directed at American history and traditions, at small-town America and at the American middle class will just bring about a replay of 2016. Trump will almost certainly win again if the nation's would-be opinion leaders in the media, entertainment and academia continue to make a large part of the American people their enemy.
There are some interesting positives. It's heartening how the left, once ardent top-down believers in Washington DC's invincible power over states and localities, have suddenly discovered the value of states-rights and federalism in creating alternative spaces. Conservatives couldn't have said it better.
Very good question, thank you very much for asking it. I guess I should have added "in this thread". My sincerest apologies to me again for being a bit rude there.
Nope, he's Norwegian.Born in Norway to a Norwegian mother and a Greek father, I think, but I might be wrong.
Here's some information from the Swedish Foreign Ministry:
Facts about migration and crime in Sweden - Government.se
Yes. So in response, these salt of the Earth types will continue voting for a dude who announced his candidacy with a lengthy rant demonizing an ethnic group, by name. And haven't stopped there. Also, his supporters routinely spew insults like "libtard" and "feminazi", and then complain the other side doesn't show them "respect". And this doesn't even include the actual white supremacists and fellow-travellers on the alt right.
You know, I hear this narrative on my other hobbyhorse topic, my homeland's politics. All our problems are because those poor hard working coal miners in the East felt disrespected. If only we "understood" Donbass, all would be avoided. This is nonsense. I'm not wasting my empathy on people who are enabling foreign aggression and torturing both civilians and POWs, and help looting their own industry. Same way, I'm done trying to relate to people self-identifying with "the deplorables" and cheer when a group is dragged through mud (as long as it's not "politically correct" or affect them). I'm also keenly aware that one scapegoat Trump uses to bamboozle his flock is "immigrants", people like, I dunno, ME.
You may say that I'm out of touch. I don't care, I'm not running for office. Also, I'm a Canadian Liberal, and our guys won a Majority in 2015 (meaning the party may do as it pleases, essentially). Also, the majority of voters in your country voted against your guy, and his voters were, on average, wealthier and much whiter than Clinton voters. So your Populist shtick is a fraud, like most Trump products from vodka to Trump U to his administration.
Long time trend in US clearly show that as immigrant (including undocumented) population expanded, violent crime went down. So obsession with "foreign criminals" (which Harpercons tried here in Canada) is badly disguised form of anti-minority identity politics.
Do you live there now? If not, when was the last time you lived there for any significant amount of time?
My mother-in-law was born in Ireland, but she doesn't have the slightest idea of what's going on there now. Simply claiming birth is one step above me claiming I know the troubles in Mexico because I eat at Taco Bell once in awhile.
Separate names with a comma.