How good is Kennedy-Western?

Do you mean the person believes they cannot complete an accredited degree because they do not have the mental capacity/ motivation/ desire or do you mean they cannot complete it due to circumstances beyond their control such as schedule/ knowledge of schools such as TESC, COSC, Excelsior/ knowledge of accreditation differences?

 

Randell1234,

I saw this post and kind let slide, since is an opinion and no the facts. Vini, who got accepted by Accredited Universities(Argosy U. and NCU) to do Doctorate studies but change his mind, because spending $40K or more in an Doctorate, does not seem reasonable(my own reasons), but not because he lacks of the brains and capacity to ace any Doctorate program in Accounting or Finance. Just my own opinion!

 

My personal opinion is that there are a few people that get diplomas from degree mills that really believe that they've earned the degrees. There's a larger percentage, I'd guess, that feel that they've worked the system or have lucked into a real degree somehow without doing a lot of work. Then there's another group that knows that they're co-conspirators in a scam. Different degree mills will have differring precentages of alumni in these three categories. My guess is that KWU has one of the larger percentages in the first two groups compared to other degree mills. I base my guess on the insidious nature of the KWU scam as well as the number of righteously indignant KWU alumni that visit this forum and seem to demonstrate such deep states of denial.

 

There are some institutions that I do not know where to place them in my opinions. Other than, have to agree about questionable practices and make look all non-accredited but legitimate schools look bad. Loopholes in the law can be bad, because it can give entrance to all sorts of things. I hope this can improve in the near future.

 

Jim and I do not see eye to eye on much, and our views of KWU are 180 degrees apart.

Several have made good points in this thread, but the points need to just be about KWU. If this turns into a humiliate JimS thread by implying that he is liar or moron, what good is that? This is the kind of stuff that creates enemies, and gives an excuse to say these are just more biased protect the establishment types.

I think you all should give him a chance to make his points, and try to take up for KWU. If he objectively looks into it enough eventually he will get it, I think. If not don't give him an excuse to hate the DI "gang". We may all learn something more from some healthy debate.

Jim, don't lump everyone here into the "gang" because everyone here has his or her own opinions. However, some here think KWU is worse than the blatent diploma mills because they dupe unknowing people into thinking that they deserve a degree, and give just enough work to make them think they are not a diploma mill. So, if you come here saying that KWU is as good as some B&M's and say you see it as an opportunity then you should be ready to make your case.

 

JimS, you really should listen to the senate hearing where they had an ex-employee of KWU testify and the investigator that got accepted and took a couple of classes.

 

When I made the statement I was primarily thinking about graduate degrees and I was primarily thinking that these people choose this "easy" route because they are concerned that they do not have the cognitive horsepower to successfully complete an accredited graduate degree program. Let's face it, there are a lot of people who just squeaked through their undergrad programs with some minimal GPA. Five or ten years later they may be rather insecure about the prospect of tackling a real Masters degree program. Of course, as both you and PaulC pointed out, there may be another group that takes the easy route because they believe they don't have the time to do the real program. The whole "knowledge of schools/accreditation" argument I just don't buy. You don't need to know the details of accreditation to know that you don't earn a real degree by taking six courses (or none at all). It's common knowledge that standard degree programs take years of full-time study to complete. I don't buy the phony portfolio scam either.
"Oh sure Mr. Smith we'll give you 18 credits of business courses based on your extensive experience working the counter at Blockbuster. Plus, we'll give you 9 credits of English Lit. for those Stephen King novels you read and if your cable TV package includes the History Channel we'll give you 9 credits in your choice of American, European or World history coursework."
Who is stupid enough to believe that is real? They know it's a scam and they don't care.
Jack

 

You are absolutely correct with regard to the idea of giving someone credit because they have been able to maintain a heartbeat for 30 years. But, there was a time when I
did not fully understand the accreditation issue.

I still think CCU is a quality school and when I decided to attend, I used the fact that the PhD or PsyD (can't remember) graduates could sit for the state exams in Psychology. You must admit that is an indication the program has some quality.

 

I'm not fostering KW support but using number of courses may not be an accurate measure of a lacking program. Western Carolina University has a 6 course Masters in Project Management that is AACSB accredited.

I would anticipate that KW has already identified this program and others to bolster their own position. However unlike KW this program has been evaluated by multiple accreditors.

 

Each of the KWU courses are supposed to be equivalent to a 3 semester unit course. This was what was frequently stated on the Pub. I guess that it may not necessarily be what is claimed in court though.

The KWU Bachelor's degrees are most flagrantly substandard.

 

I'd be happy to admit that it has some substantial quality. I can't say that I've really examined the program, I'm willing to accept this as true based primarily on the expressed opinions of people I've come to trust, yourself included. It seems to me, however, that this is one of the exceptions. I freely admit that my own opinion in these matters tends to be rather harsh and on more than one occasion I've smiled at the characterization, "RA or no-way," because that, essentially was my opinion. I've softened my stance a bit within the last year or so but not to the extent that would allow me to even ignore JimS' lame defense of his lame school. In my opinion, he has made a mistake but I am not interested in trying to change people's minds on these matters. It's good to be able to express ones opinion however.
Jack

 

Bad man that I am, I wanted the promoter of KW to explain in understandable terms just what value he saw in the outfit or its practices. He wouldn't do so. Don't bang the drum for what is certainly a substandard school, likely a scam, and then refuse upon inquiry to explain or display anything substantive. Admittedly, the young feller had already, in typical junk forum fashion, dismissed all of us (you too) as snobs. Hell, even snobs like stuff splained to them. Refusal to do so shows a shill, not a person who may have made a regrettable choice, or even a person honestly trying to defend a nonstandard [note neutral term] choice. Never ever having been "RA or no way", having been routinely careful to distinguish even the sadly substandard but ethical school from shell games and bold deceivers, I get mighty bored with whippersnappers trotting out the same trite crap about this site and its fictitious mean ole unanimity over and over again. Crap is no substitute for thought, and whining when one's surliness meets with hearty laughter in response is, well, just pathetic.

 

And each course is 6 credit hours or 36 credit hours total (unless you need the pre-req's which add an additional 3 (2 credit hour) courses.

 

Wait a minute. Its not just about an MS with six courses. For the WCU MS the following is important to note:

1. To be eligible for consideration, applicants must present a satisfactory score on the GMAT or the GRE (NOT SO WITH KW)

2. ...and an undergraduate GPA sufficient to meet formula minimums. (NOT SO WITH KW)

3. After admission to the program, the following course prerequisites (or their equivalent) must be satisfactorily completed for admission to PM 650: PM 500, 505, and 515. This prerequisite background may be obtained in the student’s undergraduate coursework, or the courses may be taken online from WCU prior to starting PM 650. (NOT SO WITH KW)

So the surface similarity of six courses is really no comparison at all.

 

Hey JimS,

I am no part of any gang, nor have I called any names. I did ask some questions though, so could you answer mine?

You never finished your sentence and I hate to be left hanging. You could not say anything nice about? I am so curious as to whether you are angry at K-W University or at the Senate investigation. I would also love to here about the schools that you think K-W is as good as. You have not disputed anything that has been written about or any testimony against K-W, so it is hard to buy your defense of K-W when you just say it is good. Can you honestly compare K-W to a real university, or to real distance learning?

I sure hope you find the time soon.

 

The National test Pilot School has been quoted many times on this forum as an example of a good unaccredited school. However the NTS itself must have concluded that regional accredition would serve to validate its credibility and applied for accreditation.
The WASC has scheduled a visit to the National Test Pilot School in Fall 2005.
http://www.wascweb.org/senior/visits04-05.htm

 

I think the number is infinitessimally small for programs that are not available through accredited options. I think that number will only get smaller (as it has over the last twenty years).

Certainly there are exceptions, but those exceptions are not in business, computers, social sciences, and most anything else.



Tom Nixon

 

I'm happy that you're happy. As long as you don't mind your school being called a degree mill in Congressional hearings, then it should all work out for you.



Tom Nixon

 

At the University that I teach we have credit and non-credit programs. Non-credit
programs are normally a lot less rigorous than the credit programs. However, we have students that just dont't have the time or not willing to put the effort for a credit program. I see KW
as a non-credit provider for training. The only problem is that they label their credentials as "degrees" when we know that they don't carry the same academic value as an accredited program. In my opinion they are a scam since they deceive potential students by selling something as a degree when it is nothing more than a training program.

 

My personal opinion is that there are a few people that get diplomas from degree mills that really believe that they've earned the degrees. There's a larger percentage, I'd guess, that feel that they've worked the system or have lucked into a real degree somehow without doing a lot of work. Then there's another group that knows that they're co-conspirators in a scam.

Sums it up nicely, Bill!