How good is Kennedy-Western?

Even without the credit by portfolio of experience (which was not excessive) they still had the other schools beat for price per credit. I'm not sure what you mean by "history of deception" nor do I care to know. I've been a student at KWU for five months and I am very happy with the quality of the professors and staff at KWU. They are excellent.

 

Your comment was addressing what I stated but...I was being sarcastic, Rich. I don't care about K-W. I'm talking about unaccredited schools in general. Even in bringing up the "rumor" it was a joke...you know that everyone that follows these boards knows about that. What's really funny though is I have no agenda other than to promote discussion (playing devil's advocate).

 

A lot of what you say applies to all Distance Eduacation degrees, not just to unaccredited programs. Misconceptions do exist, but can be corrected. There are enlightened hiring managers who understand the important thing is that you worked for your degree, not just paid for it.

 

I'm sorry I misunderstood. I'm new to this board and don't know the online history and personalities. I'm prone to sarcasm myself, but found out it doesn't always go over in this medium. It's sad. A person needs to be silly once in a while, but then you get jumped on because someone takes you serious.

 

I am NOT "new to this board" but I still don't understand. Why do the same questions appear again and again concerning the same doubtful schools? Is somebody hoping the D/L gurus that post here will, just this once, say something different??

BillDayson is right (as usual). There remain a few, a FEW, special programs that aren't available by D/L from accredited institutions. Otherwise, don't waste your time and money acquiring a dicey diploma that may blow up in your face.

 

Hmmm Bdev

I must admit my shill-o-meter is sounding off a bit too. Perhaps this is new to you and have yet to see much in this arena. Perhaps not.

To answer your question, people who are anti-degree mill support the ODA because it provides a strong frame work to inform people of the differences between accredited and unaccredited schools. The ODA is charged with preventing degree mills from operating or their degrees being used in Oregon. From what I see, they are doing an excellent job. This is very problematic for a school like K-W which is either a degree mill or very close to one. Like many degree mills. K-W is attempting to use the courts to prevent enforcement.

States such as Wyoming, and to a lesser degree California, create an environment in which degree mills operate pretty freely. They don't provide real enforcement only the illusion of enforcement.

As to unaccredited schools being beat up here, could you please provide a specific example with a link. I just don't see it. If instead you mean accurately describing deceptive schools like K-W, PWU and others, I would NOT consider that beating them up.

Again, accreditation is voluntary, but not in the "it is no big deal if you don't have it" way. More in the "if you don't have it States can preclude you from using your degree" way.

Your comment to Rich came across to me as an attack. It also made you sound like a ton of degree mill shills that have posted here before.

 

Interesting that you are unconcerned that many see your school as a sham. I hope it meets your needs.

 

Aside from being the understatement of the century, this points to exactly why none of what KW does can be taken seriously.

When you catch a liar in an egregious lie, whatever else he says that might be truth becomes irrelevant. When it is clear and obvious that the character of a man is questionable, then his "good" attributes take on a semblance of irrelevance. When something that is supposed to resemble a legitimate academic institution makes a mockery out of assessing and assigning academic credit for prior learning, all else that it does becomes irrelevant.

The KW process of prior learning assessment is the antithesis of a legitimate academic process. There is no serious attempt to equate prior learning or experience with academic credit.

This is why the entire KW thing is so reasonably discounted as an academic institution.

 

The old "hear no evil", "see no evil", and "speak no evil" approach?

 

Whether you interpret it as an attack or not, I have stated what it was. I apologize for offending you, Rich. Rich's comment could be interpreted as rude and I tried to counter it with sarcasm because I know that dissenting views get pummeled here. I'm certain that some of you never see anything wrong with anything that one of the "gang" members say (figuratively speaking). Gang rules around here, I know.

Speaking of gang rules, I feel that anyone that comes to this board who doesn't chant a certain "mantra" is labeled a degree mill advocate (shill-o-meters start going off). I'm new to distance education and this forum but I've observed enough to realize that. I can't speak for anyone else but in this instance you're wrong. I'm not an advocate for any school...I advocate for me...remember, I'm trying to find a good school(''). Maybe because I'm new I agree with JimS (his previous comment)--that's why I haven't gotten rid of my sense of humor. Maybe my newness attributes to me approaching everything with an open mind (instead of just agreeing with the status quo/gang). Maybe it's ignorance, I'll find out eventually, right?

Something should be done about the mills, I agree so I appreciate the ODA for doing something. I just think it's hypocritical to say on one hand: "Your State Approved School is worthless!" but on the other hand: "But this State Approved list is worth it's weight in gold!" It's a good idea but I'd much rather see something similar done on the Federal level (which is why I said that I'm glad that K-W is taking the ODA to court) so that this can settle this (eventually).

I think the majority of you are extremely intelligent and I truly respect your thoughts/views on many subjects. I have learned alot by coming to this board (I would have been scammed a thousand times over if not for this board and CollegeHints) so I hope that you believe me when I say that I'm not trying to "take" anything from this forum; I'm honestly trying to contribute.

 

This poll was commented upon on another forum with disparagement about the "gang" and our supposed Sovietism. You wouldn't happen to be a poster from another forum trying to pick a fight here in order to go back and whine about how you were ill-treated? I certainly hope you have more integrity than that, but verbal similarities between your posts and the usual attack-this-forum stuff make me wonder.

Furthermoer (a pun, not a typo), if you think I'm going to express a low opinion on KW in order to facilitate bashing this board, you are mistaken. Having routinely defended unaccredited school which seemed *worthy* of defense, folks who don't understand nuance will just have to guess what my opinion of KW might be. My fellow posters of good will on this forum know perfectly well what it is.

Have a nize day.

 

Here is why I do not see hypocrisy in the example you provide.

One must look at the specific state guidelines in order to develop an informed opinion of the relative academic value of a state approved "school". That is what many here have done. Reviewing a particular state’s guidelines is a rather easy thing to do. Once one knows what these are, one can make an informed opinion regarding the unaccredited "school" from a particular sate. One can also review the ODA standards. Once can read the ODA rules and decide if the guidelines they use to label a "school" a mill are reasonable or not.

No hypocrisy here for the informed. Unaccredited schools that have state approval in Wyoming are suspect exactly because of the lacking academic standards and guidelines in the Wyoming state approval to operate process.

The information on state regs are easy to research. Look at them for yourself and judge if a school that meets these regs merit being lumped into the same basket as schools that adhere to the standards, practices policies, and procedures of the accrediting bodies. Look at the ODA guidelines and judge if they are reasonable.

 

It looks like the same old false statement being repeated. Bill Dayson often speaks up for unaccredited schools. Now I must admit that a large number of these seem to eventually go for accreditation. I don't recall anyone ever "ganging" up on Bill for this. In this very thread Bill and Craig posted that they had not voted for KWU being a scam. No one said that they were wrong even though they went against what you call the gang. As a matter of fact, quite a large percent of people voted in that category. The only vote that I have trouble reconciling/justifying in my mind is that of KWU being a good school. So does that mean that everyone (except the one person that voted that KWU is a good university) is in the gang or does it mean that there is not a real gang afterall?

 

Interesting that the number of members who view Kennedy-Western as a good university is so low (< 2%). I actually would have expected more.

Here is some more old info from the Chronicle of Higher Education:

From the Chronicle of Higher Education
http://chronicle.com/free/v48/i31/31a03502.htm
http://chronicle.com/free/v48/i31/31a03501.htm

At that price it certainly is not low cost, especially when there are several accredited schools that can beat that price (see: http://bain4weeks.com/mastermenu.html).

(PS: I like the Chronicle’s phraseology "spend ... to receive a degree") the word earn a degree was not used. Coincidence?).

 

I meant that I do not want to hear any hearsay and opinions. I'd rather judge for myself. A lot of the negative KWU opinions seem like academic snobbery to me.

 

Rats! The one at http://www.ics.hawaii.edu/academics/asynch/ms-online.jsp
would have been in my price range. I didn't want to take out another home equity loan after finally paying off the one for my MCSE. Either it is a new program, or I missed it in my research of exiting programs.

 

Would you class these as academic snobbery, also?

http://govt-aff.senate.gov/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Hearings.Testimony&HearingID=176&WitnessID=633
http://govt-aff.senate.gov/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Hearings.Testimony&TestimonyID=571&HearingID=176
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04771t.pdf

 

Not new. We have been discussing it for over a year now.

 

No, I don't have time to go into what I think about that situation. I'd better not say anything, since I can't think of anything nice to say about.....

 

How Not to be a Snob

Let's take a look.

KW required, say, 5 courses for a bachelors' at 3 hrs per course=15 credit hours. Okie dokie.
Typical bachelor's degree requires, say, 40 courses at 3 hrs per course=120 credit hours. Okie dokie.

JimS, here's how to cure yourself of the most common form of snobbery, the fiscal.

Tell payroll, the next time you pick up your paycheck slated for, say, $1200.00, to issue a check for $150.00 because it would be snobbery to insist on the whole amount. Okie dokie?

Let us know how it turns out.