House Dems: double Pell, rework federal loan system

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by SteveFoerster, Sep 16, 2022.

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  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Rachel83az likes this.
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Focusing on our future and our kids future should be bipartisan.
    The gov, no mater whoo at the time at steering wheel should work together on ways to relieve the burden of student loans.
    So in such a high inflation the pell-grant should be tripled, and for those who struggle financially loan discharge programs put in place.
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Pell doesn't need to be tripled. As it is, just with Pell alone and no loans one can afford community colleges and programs like SUU's. I can at least see the argument for subsidizing tertiary education as a public policy goal, but subsidizing a four year residential experience to accompany it simply isn't necessary -- whether for those who are Pell eligible or for the middle class.
     
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Understood.
    I was thinking along side cost of living, gas, food, rent etc. FT students may struggle or struggling to survive. Tuition is one important part and being able to survive etc.
    My son worked PT as a TA in middle school while going to univ FT. Today just driving to work will be big expanse. I know I'm mixing things.
     
  6. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    AFAIK, there are many places where you cannot afford CC with JUST a Pell. And many people don't even qualify for full Pell, only partial Pell, but that doesn't mean they can actually afford college.
     
    LevelUP likes this.
  7. LevelUP

    LevelUP Active Member

    That's the problem is that the working middle-class always gets screwed.

    Pell Grants should be given to everyone. And why in the hell are loan amounts differ depending on if you are an independent or dependent student and according to what year you are?? The cost per college credit is fixed, so the yearly loan amount should be set at $12,500 per year.

    https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/much-borrow-college
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No, they should be based on need. Oh, wait a minute, they already are. Duh.
     
    Charles Fout likes this.
  9. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I often hear people say something like "I only paid $500 per year to attend a community college back in 1970." $500 in 1970 is equal to $3,816 in 2022 dollars. Minimum wage in 1970 was $1.45. Let's say that your partial Pell Grant award only covers $2,000 of the $4,000 tuition at a community college. You likely earn enough to make installment payments on tuition. People do it at Penn Foster, Ashworth, etc. And, if you can't make the payments, $2,000 in student loans isn't all that bad.
     
  10. LevelUP

    LevelUP Active Member

    Besides the middle-class squeeze, many students have parents that are unable to pay or refuse to pay for their kid's tuition.

    Students may have parents that make too much money to qualify for a Pell Grant and live in a high-rent area, so they may be living month-to-month with little or no savings.

    Other parents may be unwilling to tap into their retirement to pay for their kid's education.

    I see this a lot where students fall through the cracks.
     
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  11. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    Reminder that one shouldn't JUST look at the cost of tuition for affordability. Books can cost as much, or more than, tuition. Getting $2k Pell on a $4k tuition may mean that your college is only 1/4 to 1/3 paid for.
     
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  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    When I was a mere lad going to night school on Air Force tuition assistance, it paid 75% of the tuition, but you had to pay for your books and materials. The textbook was usually more expensive than your 25% of the tuition, even at private schools.
     
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  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Hence the importance of the open educational resources movement!
     
    JBjunior, SweetSecret and Johann like this.
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Right. textbooks have been expensive forever. 40 years ago I took Abnormal Psych. in college (night school.) First time for me, that the book cost MORE than the course! Almost "unreal" enough for a psychosis!

    About 15 years later, I was taking economics at Uni (again, night school.) Another hugely expensive textbook. The instructor was a brilliant lady - an engineer, originally from Iran, who had subsequently earned an MBA and migrated successfully into the business world. She told us, "You don't have to bother with the textbook. Get the course notes - they're $8 - do your homework and project - and pay attention carefully in class. Anything on the exams will be in the notes and discussed in class."

    Good call. It worked.
     
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  15. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    More and more colleges are either moving to open source books or have some kind of online materials package that doesn't cost the students anything out of pocket. When I attended a local community college, I saved a lot of money by renting and buying used textbooks. I know that sometimes there are key codes you'll need for software that comes with new books, but if it was cheaper to rent or buy used and pay separately for the subscription, I would do that.
     
  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Cost of attendance is factored into your financial aid award, and cost of attendance includes room and board. The differences in off-campus room and board costs depends on the location of the school.
     
  17. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Active Member

    Agreed, I was one of those. I have zero full-blood siblings (although over two handfuls of siblings), parents who did not get along (divorced, did not graduate college), and both sets refused to fill out the paperwork. Of all the siblings, I was the second to youngest and only one who dealt with parents not wanting to fill out the FAFSA paperwork. The youngest did not graduate HS and had zero interest in college. Out of all the kids I think I am the only one to pursue graduate school. I would literally borrow textbooks on interlibrary loan from the public library and took as many notes as I could on the chapters before I had to send the book back... just to get through my coursework. I seriously financially struggled through college, and made choices I should have never been in a position to consider. I still think it's a miracle I even graduated.

    I am in full support of revamping the system.
     
    Bill Huffman and SteveFoerster like this.
  18. Greeneyedpea81

    Greeneyedpea81 New Member

    Instead of offering more money and guaranteed loans, I think it would be better for the cost of tuition to match expected salary outcomes. Of course, schools can still charge whatever they want to, but just as the other federal contractor mandates it’s up to the contractor to decide if they want to meet the requirements or not.

    They have collected too much data to continue to ignore the poor outcomes (unemployment rate, post grad wage increase, opportunity, etc) mainly reported by some of the private schools.

    Their stated goal is to increase bachelor degree recipients, but the degree is watered down and means nothing if a lot of people get that piece of paper and stuck in the same position, just with more debt.

    So who/what is benefiting from this guaranteed loan and tax payer $ scheme?
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This reduces a university education to a career training program. I both agree and disagree with it.

    I agree because this country has an awful human capital management system that fails systematically to identify needs and prepare people for entry in a wide array of professions and occupations, pushing people instead into the only universally recognized form of credential: the university degree.

    I disagree because of the same reason. I hate that so many people see the university experience and credential so transactionally, when it should be transformative as well in ways that are not so quantifiable.
     
    Greeneyedpea81 and Bill Huffman like this.
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    So do I. There's a lot of that transactional thinking, here at DI - just like everywhere else. "Qualitative" in this regard, has pretty well left the building, these days. And, sadly, I don't think cheaper degrees would have much effect in bringing it back. "Executive Trade School" has arrived.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
    Rich Douglas likes this.

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