Hawaii List Update

Hello friends, sorry about my English.

Hi Bill, I forget these references:

Accreditation is an “voluntary membership" (Authority: 20 U.S.C.1099b)
http://www.ed.gov/legislation/FedRegister/finrule/1999-4/102099a.html#subpartb

State of the Union has "legal authority to provide postsecondary education in the State" (Authority: 20 U.S.C.1099b)
http://www.ed.gov/legislation/FedRegister/finrule/1999-4/102099a.html#subpartb

20 U.S.C.1099b

That is the reason that the U.S.A. Department of Education says, “accrediting agencies that are recognized by the Secretary have no legal control over educational institutions or programs” http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg3.html

Again Bill, LEGAL. Remember, 20 U.S.C.1099b and Department of Education

PhD Pacific Western University (Criminal Justice)
MA Caribbean University (Criminal Justice)
BA American University of Puerto Rico (Criminal Justice)
Certificate University College of Criminal Justice
Certificate Universidad Metropolitana (Paralegal Investigator)

 

It is legal to drive with an open can of beer in your hand and a loaded gun on your deat in Texas. This does not make it legal to drive in Michigan that way, even if you have a truck licensed in Texas and a valid Texas drivers license.

Hawaii has successfully prosecuted several (see list above) unaccredited organizations for operating in violation of Hawaii law.

At this time the ones they have not prosecuted are operating legally. So what? That does not make them the rationally choice for the majority of people interested in persuing a degree.

They still are not accrdited, and most people will find that an unaccredited degree does not have a lot of value and use in the real world. Some people will find that such a degree suits their needs, but often it is because they did not need the degree in the first place, they just wanted one.

With the current uproar about people in government using unaccredited degrees for advancement and/or to meet minimal jobe requirements, the scrutiny degrees and educational claims will recieve (in MY OPINION) will increase.

So as the old saying goes:

Personnaly, I will (and am going) the accredited route. Good luck with yours.

 

actually mothers against drunk driving managed to take away our right to drink and drive. I believe you can still have an open container in Montana though. And, you can't have a loaded fire arm within reach of the driver in Texas, unless they have a liscense to carry a conceled weapon. Of course I could be wrong. I think I am the only Texan without a gun. But I know I am right about the drinking thing.... I think....

 

Hi Police, it's already been explained that the degree mill are the ones that love to say that kind of stuff. I see that you've swallowed their story hook line and sinker. The higher education system in the USA consists of accredited institutions. It is the degree mills that push the misleading story that you keep going back to.

It's already been explained that your legal argument is irrelevant.

Is Hamilton University in Wyoming operating legally? Probably, did you know that a person high up in the government Department of Homeland Security had to resign in disgrace. Is St. Regis operating legally? Perhaps, but that isn't any consolation to the 11 people in Georgia, USA that are under fire. In the last few days 6 of them paid back their salary increases and resigned their good jobs. They are all in fear of criminal prosecution. Go tell them that SRU is operating legally and see if it makes them feel any better.

Like I said before, I hope that if/when your time bomb goes off you don't end up in the same mess as the people described in my previous paragraph. If it does go boom for you though you can come back here and I'll be very sympathetic as I say "I told you so."

Take care,
Bill

 

You can too drive with a loaded gun on your deat in Michigan, but most folks get cramps in their deats after while.

But seriously, folks:

Hi Police, sorry about my Carpathian. When, o when, are you gonna drop the dead donkey about "legal"? You bought yourself a fine legal worthless degree from Pacific Western. Good for you. Let us all say in chorus, "legal, legal, legal." But worthless. Nobody with a real degree from a worthwhile school needs to go around whining endlessly "but it's leeegal." I have never ever wondered whether my RA bachelor's or either of my RA master's was "legal".

So you spent money on a sleazy degree. Fine. It's your money. If the ethics of what you did bother you--and why else keep trying to hide behind "legal"--deal with it. Either quit advertising your sleazy degree or quit making excuses for it. It's not up to the rest of the world to salve your conscience through a wrongheaded application of the crassest form of legal positivism. It may be legal to serve a turd in a restaurant, but it's up to you if you eat it.

 

Much thanks for bringing me back to reality. I appreciate that almost as much as the laughter your fine post brought into my life this fine day.

 

Hello friends, sorry about my English.

Ok uncle, no more Legal things for the moment. The Legal legitimacy is hard to understand.

Worthless?

I think that the Hawaii Senate and the Hawaii House of Representatives have a different opinion. http://www.pwu.com/home.asp?ID=8 Remembers, they recognized and commended the institution.

Worthless?

I think this people in Academia have different opinion

Looks this Graduates from Pacific Western University in university circles.

John Nielsen, Program Coordinator, Grand Rapids
A.B., Calvin College
M.S.W., University of Michigan
Ph.D., Pacific Western University http://www.wmich.edu/hhs/Facultydirectory/social_work.html

Bill Fenn, Professor
B. S. P. A., University of Oklahoma
B. S. B. A., SUNY
M. M., Aquinas College
Ph.D., Pacific Western University http://www.wmich.edu/hhs/Facultydirectory/pa.html

Yair Ingber, Ph.D.
Pacific Western University http://copace.clarku.edu/programs/is-faculty.htm

Uri Patt, Ph.D.
Pacific Western University http://copace.clarku.edu/programs/is-faculty.htm

David Hergert
Ph.D. - Pacific Western University http://www.sas.muohio.edu/ent/BOOK/hergert.html

Terry de forrest Ph.D. Pacific Western University
http://www.cos.edu/view_page.asp?nodeid=3090&parentid=3065&moduleid=1

Salvatore J. Mazzullo , Professor (PhD 1974, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; DSc, Pacific Western University http://webs.wichita.edu/geology/people/faculty/

ANTHONY F. MULLEN, Ph.D.
Ph.D., Pacific Western University
M.S., Elmira College http://www.jonesinternational.edu/aboutJIU/faculty/profile.php?profile=208.12&pg=fctyteach&pt=

DR. JOHN P. KAESS
B.A., College of St. Thomas
M.A., University of Minnesota
Ph.D., Pacific Western University http://www.smac.edu/?ColFaculty

Barry Leahy, Part-time Lecturer, Ph.D. in Business Administration, Pacific Western University; Real Estate and Residential Project Development. http://depts.washington.edu/cmweb/faculty/


Shashi N. Sharma, Adjunct Professor, Statistics, Ph.D., Pacific Western University
http://www.sc.edu/bulletin/archives/2002-2003/Beaufort/admin.html
Jaime Costales Peñaherrera: Ph.D., Transpersonal Psychology, Pacific Western University. http://www.bu.edu/abroad/cities/quito_lla/faculty.html
Dr. Ernest E. Moyers
• Ph.D. Computer Engineering, Pacific Western University, 1989
• Ph.D. Mathematics, Rice University, 1965
• M.S. Applied Mathematics, University of Mississippi, 1960
• B.S. Mathematics ,University of Mississippi, 1957 http://www.aamu.edu/ComputerScience/csd_webpage/faculty_ft/moyers_ernest.htm
Gary F. Flanigan, Ph.D., Pacific Western University (Communications)
Adjunct Instructor http://www.cau.edu/acad_prog/mass_media/media_faculty_right.html
BERSTON, HYMAN MAXWELL
A.A., City College of San Francisco; B.S., University of California, Berkeley; M.B.A., San Francisco State University; Ph.D., Pacific Western University http://www.ccsf.edu/Catalog/FacAdj/
Judith M. Hearmann, M.A., Pacific Western University, 1994. http://www.drury.edu/multinl/story.cfm?id=1305&nlid=86
Paul Medhurst MS : Pacific Western University http://www.apus.edu/AMU/navigation/academic_programs/faculty/gprofessors.asp
Professor Hugo G. Gemignani Ph.D., Pacific Western University, http://ola4.aacc.edu/hggemignani/
Keith W. KrasemannEducation:
Ph.D. Comparative Philosophy, Pacific Western University
Ed.D. Adult Education, Northern Illinois University
M.A. Applied Professional Studies, DePaul University M.A. Philosophy, Northern Illinois University
B.S. Philosophy, University of Wisconsin

Beijing University, Chinese History and Culture
http://www.cod.edu/dept/lart/krasemann.htm
Edwardine Weaver, RSM Ed.D., Pacific Western University (education) http://www.rochester.edu/Warner/faculty/weaver.html
Paul Bell, Ph.D http://www.eni.edu/atlarge.faculty.bell.html
CHARLES L. MADER Dr. Mader received his Ph.D. from Pacific Western University. http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/ARLT-L-97-90-G?OpenDocument
MOHAMED ALI ABUKAR, Ph.D http://www.aste.usu.edu/Dr.%20Abukar/DrAbukar.html
Jeena Whang Piccuta http://www.continuing-ed.calpoly.edu/osher/arts.html
LAWRENCE, RICHARD, PhD, JD PhD in Business Law and Education at Pacific Western University
Acting DEAN http://www.irvineuniversity.edu/coa/coa_fac.asp
John H. Seffel
Ph.D. (Pacific Western University) http://www.uiw.edu/ugcat0305/08.html
Dr. David R. Bishop Ph.D. Pacific Western University http://dco-proxima.dco.pima.edu/curonline/faculty/facultylist.htm
Moyers, ErnestDegrees Earned:
Ph.D. in Engineering from Pacific Western University, 1988
Ph.D. in Math from Rice University, 1989 http://www.aamu.edu/oipre/FacultyProfile/faculty_profile.asp?ID=28
Caroline Mosessian , Ph.D.
Clinical Assistant Professor
Chief Financial Officer
Chief Administrative Officer http://www.usc.edu/schools/medicine/util/directories/faculty/profile.php?PersonIs_ID=819
Timothy McNamara Ph.D. in mathematics education from Pacific Western University http://www.monroecc.edu/etsdbs/PubAff.nsf/0/8b85bcdc477759e085256ac0006cf6d1?OpenDocument
Robert F. Moran PH. D. Health Sciences Management, Pacific Western University, 1989. http://www.wit.edu/Academics/AMS/sciencefaculty/Moran.html
In addition, the list continues

PhD Pacific Western University (Criminal Justice)
MA Caribbean University (Criminal Justice)
BA American University of Puerto Rico (Criminal Justice)
Certificate University College of Criminal Justice
Certificate Universidad Metropolitana (Paralegal Investigator)

 

You know what, Police? Been there done that. When I was angry at what I considered unfair treatment by the university where I was working on my doctorate, which I did not finish for reasons as much MY fault as theirs, I looked at Pacific Western and carefully compiled the list of graduates hired by various schools just as you did.

Know what? It proves nothing, nothing at all.

One can get a "doctorate" at PW without any supervision in the field in which you are writing, without any graduate-level library, without departments within the university, without qualified external readers or mentors in the absence of field-qualified PWU supervisors, without dissertation defence, without format requirements, guaranteed done in 6 months, payment in full up front. That's not how real doctorates are done, and fortunately for me my suspicion got the better of my anger!

Your list of graduates does not prove:
1) that they were hired on the merits of their PW doctorate
2) that any doctorate is needed for the position they hold
3) that they would keep their job if the character of PW were known to their current employer
4) that they didn't get their current job before getting the PW doctorate
5) that they would have gotten their current job if they already has the PW doc and the people hiring were aware of what PW is and is not
6) that whatever marginal legitimacy PW California possesses actually transfers over to PW Hawaii (note that PW is careful to keep the two operations apparently separate--probably in order to avoid losing their CA approval.

Maybe you did real work and a real dissertation for a degree from this shabby school. You may recall that, before he veered off into anger at virtually everybody, I read and defended Neil Hayes' dissertation on ducks, which he had done for an even worse outfit than PWU. I am more than happy to defend real work of real quality, wherever done. I will not wittingly defend a shabby school that takes people's money either as a trick or as an accomplice.

Why don't you post your dissertation as a pdf file or something so that we can read it?

Of course, it's always easier to claim that diverse opinions are not tolerated here, that the moderators are no good, etc., etc. It's always easier to rehash the same tired arguments instead of bringing any new facts to bear which would make your claims more plausible. It's always easier to side with mill promoters and resentment-mongers than to deal in an adult manner with responsible criticism.

Thank you for dropping the "legal" repetitiveness. I think PWU is less-than-wonderful, though not utterly at the bottom of the barrel. Demonstrate the quality of your work and demonstrate that you're not trying to "pull something", and I will happily and loudly acclaim your achievement as a personal achievement even though PWU is junk.

 

Hey uncle, you forget to argument regarding this; Pacific Western University is recognized and commended by the Hawaii Senate and the Hawaii House of Representatives. http://www.pwu.com/home.asp?ID=8

 

No, Police, I didn't forget to argue [not "to argument"; you could also say "make an argument"] about the Hawaii legislature commendations. They're just junk.

Legislatures everywhere, at the behest of one or two members, constantly issue proclamations like "Kohlrabi: the Miracle Vegetable" (Michigan), "Puerto Rican Rum is Great and Jamaican Rum Stinks Month" (Puerto Rico), Dubious Seminary Week (Indiana), "Crazy Guys Holed Up with Guns Day" (Idaho), hundredth-birthday greetings, and so forth.

All these things mean is that somebody is requested to propose a bullshit proclamation by a constituent as a vanity item and personal favor. Legislatures issue such proclamations by the bucketful. They certainly mean nothing in terms of quality control. Most legislators vote for the things without knowing or caring what they're about (only a controversial topic gets any attention at all). And legislative proclamations have no force at law.

Again, and quite seriously: no real university uses a legislative proclamation to legitimize or defend itself. Such things are purely decorative and lack any probative value whatever.

Again, and most seriously: If I had been able to consider PWU legitimate in the quietness of my own conscience, I certainly would have used them as a vehicle to finish my unfinished doctorate. I could not consider them legitimate once I got all the facts and searched old threads on this board thoroughly.

The best I could have done is what I offer you: applaud a dissertation as a private, personal intellectual achievement--no thanks to the spurious auspices charging thousands to put a "university" label on the thing and a doctoral abbreviation behind one's name.

Would you like to post the abstract of your dissertation? As I say, I'm happy to honor your personal achievement, whatever I think of PWU. I am no expert in the field of criminal justice, but I think I can judge whether or not a dissertation abstract makes prima facie sense.

 

About those recognitions and commendations from the Hawaii Senate and House, John Bear wrote: "A reporter for the Honolulu daily told me, a couple of years ago, that Pacific Western was making 'substantial' donations to various politicians in the state. It would seem that this investment has borne fruit."
http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=36754#post36754

The American University of Hawaii has displayed very similar recognitions and commendations:
http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10106
But that didn't stop the State of Hawaii per pro Jeffrey Brunton from suing it!
http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9634

Yes, it's a shame what some politicians will do, isn't it? Thank goodness the Hawaii legislature as a whole had more sense, and appointed Jeffrey.

 

Better done than my reply. Thanks, Mark.

 

Hello friends, sorry about my English.

Hey janko, that is why you are one of my favorites in this forum. You answer everything and some times in a funny way, I like that. Well, we have different opinions but I respect yours.

Hey now serious, why you do not continue your doctoral studies? You have potential to finish that?

You tried Capella, Walden, Union or NC?

 

Hi Police: I'll finish at a new school eventually. The schools you mention are too expensive for me, but they are certainly good schools. Parish and family keep me pretty busy, too.

See, Police, you and I disagree very strongly. But you are forthright in your posts. Your purpose to defend PWU is clearly stated, not hidden or sneaky. I disagree with you and cannot defend PWU. My purpose is clearly stated, too.

I am sure you and I both hope the other will change his opinions. Let those who behave badly notice that you and I argue like adults, man to man.

Best wishes to you. Janko

 

I absolutely agree with everyon Uncle Janko said. I just thought I'd clarify that "no real university uses a legislative proclamation to legitimize or defend itself" in the USA. Within the USA, the way a real university legitimizes itself is through accreditation. (With very few exceptions which Bob Jones University is one of the few examples.)

 

Hello friends, sorry about my English.

In “the USA, the way a real university legitimizes itself is through” the Law, the Jurisprudence and the Constitution. In addition, if a university wants to be accredited, the universities have to follows the regulations and the law.

To be an institution of higher education, the university need to be “legally authorized to provide an educational program beyond secondary education in the State in which the institution is physically located” (Code of Federal Regulations 34CFR600.4) Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1094, 1099b, and 1141(a))

“Accrediting agencies that are recognized by the Secretary have no legal control over educational institutions or programs” http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg3.html

The accreditation is good for utility, transfer and Federal money. But again, “accrediting agencies that are recognized by the Secretary have no legal control over educational institutions or programs” http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg3.html

A legislative proclamation is good thing. Is not bad to show this things if you have one.

 

How long shall the debate with "Police" go on?

It's hopeless trying to convince "Police". What we have to is prevent him from convincing other people.

Let's not confuse trying to convince the jury and the judge, with trying to convince the lawyer on the other side.

 

Police seems to be always looking for the legality in accreditation.

Accreditors are simply voluntary associations of schools that set a standard for members.

I am a member of an accounting association that sets standards for its membership. The government has nothing to do with setting the standards. Because of the standards maintained, the provincial government has chosen to allow certain exclusive practice privileges to members. The standards have been regularly raised. Should they be lowered, I am sure the government would review its licensing provisions.

I could perform substantially the same job without an accounting designation, but would lack the credibility it brings.

 

This may be the way that it is done in most of the world but it is not the way it is done in the USA. The way that real universities legitimize themselves in the USA is with accreditation.

Police, here's the difference in the USA. In most other countries there's laws that essentially require that before anyone may grant degrees they must first get permission from the government. It does not work that way in the USA. So many years ago the real universities in the USA, in order to protect themselves and potential students from sub-standard institutions, banned together and formed private (as opposed to government run) quality assurance organizations. It is these accreditation organizations that legitimize and ensure that the expected academic standards are being met.

There are a very few exceptions to this like Bob Jones University but PWU (in Hawaii especially) is not one of the exceptions. PWU in Hawaii does not meet academic standards that one would expect from a real university. PWU in California is much closer because they have to at least meet some quality assurance standards that are imposed by California but Hawaii requires nothing. All the law regulates in Hawaii is some very minimal physical presence in Hawaii and that the unaccredited institution not practice some specific common degree mill tactics that are intended to deceive. The PWU business model appears to be to send potential degree mill customers to PWU in Hawaii and if the potential student seems to expect to do more work for the degree then they graduate from PWU in California.

Again, you may believe any lie and nonsense that you want and I don't really care (except that it makes me sad when you send money to reward the con men for their efforts). I'm not really trying to convince you of anything. You obviously are working under super powers of self deception. I just feel obligated to continue responding with the same type stuff because I feel that your misleading information shouldn't be allowed to mislead others.

 

Bwa ha ha ha!

Idaho's day reminds me of Montana. That state was running a contest for a new state motto that received some unibomber and freemen inspired entries.

The one I liked was :

Montana! At least our cows are sane!