Has anyone here completed a WEU degree program?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by ElectricWaffle0, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. ElectricWaffle0

    ElectricWaffle0 New Member

    And have been successful in getting a job with it? See, accredited or not, degrees aren't really helping anyone anymore because it's like EVERYONE has one, but I still want to get an Associate of Art degree from World Education University. If I don't procrastinate that is :p
  2. BusinessManIT

    BusinessManIT Member

    I have not completed a degree program from this university, but I want to say that a degree is not useless. Many companies, including mine want their white collar employees to have bachelor's degrees. Only about a third of people in the US have a bachelor's degree, so not everyone has one.
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Except that it isn't like that. Only a minority of American adults has even a Bachelor's degree, and the statistics of lifetime earning potential show that, on average, someone with one earns something like a million dollars more over a lifetime than someone with just a high school diploma.
  4. ElectricWaffle0

    ElectricWaffle0 New Member

    Yes it is. What you are saying are skewed facts. What about the people who have Phds yet are working as janitors? Or no degree yet doing highly successful?
  5. ElectricWaffle0

    ElectricWaffle0 New Member

    But with more and more people having them, it starts to get harder to differentiate among them all therefore making them, in a sense, worthless. That's what worries me about even getting the thing.
  6. novadar

    novadar Member

    The cases you are referring to are the extreme outliers, of course there will always be exceptions but for the overwhelming majority of people, a higher degree will lead to higher earnings. I always have this discussion with people who are well educated and don't quite get it that even a salary of $100,000 is a extremely rare.

    Lifetime Earnings Soar with Education

    The report titled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" (.pdf) reveals that over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million.

  7. novadar

    novadar Member

    Your number guess is just about correct:

    USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

    Bachelor's degree or higher, percent of persons age 25+, 2008-2012, 28.5%
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's why I said "on average". Yes, Bill Gates is a billionaire who dropped out of college, but that doesn't mean that for most people there's no advantage to finishing a degree.
  9. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    There are exceptions to every rule, that is why they are called exceptions. You have to play the odds. Let me give you an example. For a period of about a year or 2, my grandfather was a raging alcoholic who drunk drove almost everyday. Do you know how many accidents he got into and how many innocent people he killed or injured in his automobile? ZERO. Why? Random luck. Conversely, a friend from high school and her father were killed in a car accident. How much was dad drinking? Nothing. Now from these two stories can you conclude that it is perfectly safe to drive drunk (and perhaps dangerous to drive sober)? Of course not.

    The reality is that the REVERSE is happening. As more and more people get college degrees, more and more jobs that previously did not require college degrees now require one. Here are some examples. In my city, unless you are a military vet, to get on the police or fire department you need AT LEAST 60 credit hours of college. In reality, it is hard to get on without a bachelors degree. Police officer and fire fighter are two of the most traditionally blue collar (no college degree needed) jobs out there.

    Here is another example. Many administrative assistants (AKA secretaries) are applying for jobs with associate's and bachelor's degrees. How competitive is the candidate who just has a high school diploma or GED?

    It is going to get worse and worse for folks without a degree and/or technical training. You are young right now (you just graduated from high school, right?). Instead of trying to convince others that degrees are worthless, why not ask about what is the cheapest you can get a college degree. There is a thread on here about how to get a legitimate bachelor's degree for under $5K. What is the point (other than personal satisfaction) of spending all of that time studying at WEU, when the degree won't be recognized by employers? Even if the degree is for personal satisfaction, why not get personal satisfaction AND a degree that can make you employable.

    Why not study a subject, then take a CLEP test? In my area, those tests cost about $100 and give anywhere between 3-6 credit hours per test. They are accepted at a ton of schools. If not, I fear that in 5 or 6 years you will be back on this site asking if we know of any accredited universities that will accept your credits at WEU towards an accredited degree. You may not believe me, but we have had MULTIPLE threads from people who attended an unaccredited school and want to find out if ANY accredited college will take their coursework.
  10. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I think it’s time for a reality check in this thread. First, the original poster indicated in another thread that he is a recent high school graduate. As Sweeny Todd said to Anthony (the sailor who rescued him), “You are young… you will learn.” ‘Nuff said.

    Now, the reality check . . .

    In the old days, it was popular to say, “Hey kids, let’s put on a show!” In the 21st century, the equivalent is, “Hey kids, let’s start a university!”

    The result is that we see two (count 'em – two!) so-called universities under recent discussion on this forum that aren’t even functionally operating yet, have granted zero degrees thus far, and appear to have a minimal number of persons involved in their start-up in the first place.

    So here are a few “ground rules” I suggest, FWIW, if you’re considering such schools. For those who remember The NIFI Criteria (the standards I wrote some 20 years ago on how to identify degree mills), you can treat these principles as a 21st century addendum…

    First, if a school’s web site does not list its faculty, in full and with their credentials (including the source and field for any degrees they hold), the school has zero credibility.

    Second, if a school does not list a full physical address (as opposed to, say, a post office box or the corner of two main streets in a country’s capital) and telephone number on its contact page, it’s a mickey-mouse school. Regardless of the perceived credibility of those involved in its start-up.

    Third, if the school has never granted a degree, it is hardly a university. And if it only purports to be offering (now or in the future) only one degree at the undergraduate level, it’s more of a joke than a university. Hell, it’s not even a college at this point.

    Now, you may notice that I have not called either institution under discussion on this forum a degree mill. It’s too early for that. You’ll also notice that I have not questioned the motivation of those involved in the founding of these entities. You can be sincerely motivated yet thoroughly unqualified to take the academic destiny of other people into your hands by purporting to issue degrees to them. Or not sincerely motivated. As I said, that’s not my call. What I am saying is that if one or two (or even three or four) guys get together and establish a so-called university, what we end up with is a joke.

    Whether it’s in California, the Caribbean, or anywhere else.

    I will, of course, disclose two prejudices I openly hold: (1) to me, online university is an oxymoron, and (2) for-profit schools are the spawn of Satan. I’m sorry, do I sense that you disagree? Tough. Get over it. :biggrin:

    By the way, long-term denizens of these hills will perhaps recall that I have never paid MIGS a compliment. But, as best as I can determine from reading the web sites of both schools discussed here, I‘ve gotta say that MIGS had a tighter act, and more people involved, than these two upstarts combined.

    And that's, like, all I have to say on this subject. (In other words, I love y'all, but this is not the start of an ongoing dialogue for me.)
  11. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    This thread is a prime example of why everyone should be made to take statistics in high school. Many people don't seem to understand the concepts of outliers and central tendency (mean, median, and mode).

    There are some people with degrees who are unemployed or underemployed (this mostly has to do with major chosen and their local job markets), but there are way more people with just high school diplomas who are unemployed. Also, take a look at the earnings difference below.
    Earnings and unemployment rates by educational attainment

    Yes, you may find someone with a PhD in Medieval Literature who is flipping burgers because there aren't many teaching jobs in this field, but I can assure you that most people flipping burgers are not college graduates. By the way, people with PhDs are extremely rare.
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Not rare enough that the employment market is short of them, however. Here's an article on the growing number of holders of Master's and Doctoral degrees in the U.S. who are receiving food stamps or other public assistance.


    The picture isn't entirely rosy by a long shot. A so-called "Ph.D. glut" has been discussed previously in this forum.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2014
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    BTW - that comment doesn't mean I'd dissuade anyone from earning an advanced degree. I wouldn't. Ever. I might tell someone I think it's unwise to incur huge educational debt in his/her circumstances -- but I'd never say that actual learning is a bad idea... I'd maybe try to suggest a less-expensive way.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2014
  14. Boethius

    Boethius Member

    I don't think the facts are skewed, but I'm sure there are cases like the one you mentioned. There are PhD holders driving yellow taxi cabs in New York City. Again, that's not the majority, however.

    As far as pay is concerned, Bachelor's degree holders are on the upward side of the curve; pay for Master's degree holders (and it depends which ones) receive higher pay overall in the long run; pay for professional doctorates such as JDs and MDs are at the top of the curve. Pay for PhD holders on average, relative to time getting the degree, begins to decrease overall - they are on that side of the curve that begins to decrease.

    I'm realizing you have to love research and your topic if you're doing a PhD. I don't need it and I'm earning more than associate professors and some full professors right now. But when you're involved with people in your own field, the networking is incredible. You meet smart people and listen to their ideas. Some ideas are crazy and some are interesting, and some are funny! And guess what, there's opportunity to make a little extra money. The opportunities just come to you because of your network. At least that's my experience thus far.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2014
  15. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Just about every group fares at least a little worse during an economic downturn, but it's nothing compared to how those with just high school diplomas have suffered. Not including professional degree holders, doctoral degree holders make up approximately 1.68% of the population. So out of the 314 million people in the U.S., there are around 5,275,000 people with doctoral degrees. According to that article, 33,655 people with PhDs were receiving aid. That's only 0.64% of PhD holders. Compare that to 14% of the total U.S. population receiving aid. I'm going to say that those with PhDs are generally MUCH better off. On top of that, doctoral degree holders have the lowest unemployment rate of all groups. They even have a slightly lower unemployment rate than professional degree holders. Yes, they make a little less than professional degree holders, but just think about how many PhD students are funded vs. professional degree students. Professional degree programs are often very expensive.
  16. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    Steve, it will be great if you can use your notoriety to help those guys at NWU? Why dont you volunteer and help the two people from Degreeinfo who are trying to offer an education to underserved areas of the world. Stop the insinuating and and hitting below the belt. why don't you reach out and lend them a helping hand? I know that you are busy because you only managed 345 posts over 11 years. Those guys are also busy but they have managed to help a magnitude of people over the same 11 years. I know helping will not do anything for your books or tv interviews, but it an opportunity to give back to online learning. We all applauded UOTP, but it was unaccredited before it was accredited. However, not everyone can afford UOTP. Now, this is where your assistance is needed to come up with a lower cost accredited alternative.
    Just a note, many places in the Caribbean do not have numbered addresses. Many places are identified by landmarks.
  17. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    <stage whisper> Psst: The post upthread was Dr. Levicoff being generous to NWU. In his inimitable way. A small unaccredited startup should be thankful for what it can get from Dr. L.… and I think this was about the best outcome imaginable for NWU (and WEU).

    Inasmuch as it's somewhat skeptical, well, external skepticism can be healthy. It can keep a person or group embarking on a big project on their toes.

    Let it be.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2014
  18. novadar

    novadar Member

    Wow, if that is being generous, then I would hate to see what being critical would look like.
  19. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    The problem with the whole "people with a X degree make more than people without" is that the number is skewed by some of the countries/world's top-earning CEO's an executives, a level the average degree holder will never reach or even get close to. Remove that from the equation and the reality is a lot less bright.

    For that reason alone, I don't put much stock into those kinds of stats. The reality today as that too many people have degrees and the value of them has plummeted. The general bachelor's degree holder today is competing for jobs that didn't even require a degree prior to the "economic downturn". But employers are taking all the advantages they can; they know that the supply of desperate workers is nearly limitless in today's job market.

    *steps off soapbox*
  20. ElectricWaffle0

    ElectricWaffle0 New Member

    Anyone who says "online schools are an oxymoron" their credibility goes out the window, at least to me. This is 2014, not the 1990s.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2014

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