Harvard ALM IT

Does anyone have any experience with the "Information Management Systems" concentration? Description below.



Information Management Systems
This concentration is geared toward individuals who are interested in the intersection of technology and management, and wish to understand the links between business strategy and information technology. Students learn both the theory and practice of how business processes, organizations, and global competition are transformed by developments in data communications, database management, web technologies, and distributed computing.


This looks the most interesting to me because I am interested in a career related to IT that does not involve hard-core programming. I have a minor in computer science so I have some technical background but I am not looking to be a programmer. I am looking for background information because I am an IP attorney who works with software companies.

 

No one's had experience with the IMS concentration at Harvard, because it's brand new. It starts next semester. The Software Engineering and Mathematics concentrations have been around for a while, however.

I'm currently halfway through the Software Engineering concentration, and there is some overlap between our curricula, and in my opinion, the new concentration is:

1. Highly technical, but does not require a CS background.
2. Involves some programming, but not a lot.
3. Considerably easier than the other two concentrations offered in the ALM in IT program.

This new program sounds really great, and I think that a person could learn a lot from it. My only worry would be that you might be turned off by how technical and pragmatic the courses are, considering that you're just looking for background information. Despite their description, they won't be teaching you about IT, but will be training you to become an IT professional.

 

I'm also thinking about the software engineering concentration.

Here's my dilemma. I'm a former developer and I've taken a fair amount of hard-core CS (compiler construction, etc.) but it was a long time ago. I WAS proficient in C and C++ but have no experience in Java or any of the scripting language.
Are any of these ALM IT programs going to overwhelm me?

Also, if I'm going one class at a time, what kind of time commitment are we dealing with? Thanks.

 

The courses are generally rigorous, but not overwhelming if you have some computer background. An exception to that might be the Software Engineering concentration "theory" requirement. I attended an information session at Harvard last year, and Dean Leitner warned us that the theory requirement has caused a lot of students to have to drop out of the program after they've already completed a significant portion of the program, which is why they've now made it a requirement for matriculation. For those courses, students typically report that they spend 20 to 30 hours per week outside of lectures. I spent more like 40 to 50 hours per week on the course.

Then, there is the occasional lemon course. Java for Distributed Computing, one of the worst courses I've ever seen anywhere, let alone Harvard, is taught by a dyslexic (really) windbag. Apparently, they don't bother to make corrections to that particular course, because it's a huge cash cow for them. I stopped paying attention to that course after about the third lecture, and received a perfect final grade.

For particulars on specific courses, do Google searches on the harvard.edu domain for the course web pages that apply to your program.

One course at a time may not be workable. I believe they have a five year limit to complete the program from the time you start your first course, so that's cutting it close, unless you also take the summer accelerated courses.

Overall, the ALM in IT program is really, really great. They have excellent lecturers, and TA's who are more seriously more competent than most instructors you see in other continuing ed schools. Their lecture videos are professionally produced and put up on the web within a day or two of the actual class.

 

I'm pretty sure it is five years from admission. Since admission takes place after finishing three courses, I think that leaves seven courses over five years (if you do software engineering). That's not as bad.

Do you actually submit entire programs (compiled and debugged) or is it just parts of programs (not actually compiled and run) as part of assignments?

Is the grading tough? you need a 3.0 average in the first three courses to get in.

The program sounds great. I'm very tempted to give it a go though I am sensitive to the fact that some people are going to think I'm just going for the Harvard name. While the Harvard name does not hurt, it is actually one of the more convenient IT programs given that so much of it can be done via distance learning.

 

You might be right about when admission starts. I recall they stated these policies pretty unambiguously on their web pages, so listen to them, and not to me.

The programming courses do require that you submit entire programs. In the Java based courses, you'll probably be expected to submit a Java archive file, which will basically contain your entire directory tree for the project. For C and C++ based courses, you might be required to submit programs that can successfully run on one of their server machines, probably a Linux machine.

Grading is pretty tough. I believe you're supposed to not just maintain a 3.0 average for the first three courses, but score above 3.0 for all of them. But 3.0 should be perfectly doable. Harvard's attitude when grading assignments is that A- is for excellent work demonstrating full mastery, and A is for excellent work of "extraordinary distinction", so generally, if you make no mistakes on an assignment, you'll get an A-. If there's some slight flaw, you'll get a B+, and so on. Many of the courses seem to be B centered, not B+ or B- centered. The quality of the students is quite high. My hunch is that the average CS graduate would probably find the ALM in IT program too difficult. I've heard that the program dropout rate is high, although I don't know what the actual numbers are. I do know that in the last course I took, about a third of the students dropped out. But you sound like you've given this a lot of consideration, and your background sounds strong. I think you would do fine.

As for the Harvard name, I think that it's a good thing to consider. To me, their name signifies high quality faculty, high quality courses, high quality facilities, and students who have good mental agility and don't hold back their classmates by asking silly questions.

 

If its not the Harvard prestige that has you enamoured, try looking at other programs listed on my web site:

http://ww2.cs.fsu.edu/~peeler/topschools.html

Most of the programs on this site are completely distance learning whereas Harvard requires one semester of residency. The top school in the country for Software Engineering is Carnegie Mellon and it offers a MSIT with a concentration in Software Engineering.

Good luck in your pursuits.

 

Hi JoeyFBW and TescStudent,

Great to have read the comments from both of you, as I too am seriously considering the ALM in IT with a concentration (guess what) in Info Mgmt Sys too!

I have actually sent a few emails to Harvard Extension and got a few conclusions/clarifications from them:

1) You have to finish 12 modules, in which 9 can be done online and the remaining 3 must be done with residency in Harvard.

2) The final project is a collaborative one, which is what they called a Capstone course. You have to do it with other students who have already gone passed the first 9 modules.

3) You have to finish each module at the same time with the on-campus student. So that means, you can't just take one module in 2005 Spring term and get lazy to hope you can log back in online to complete it in 2007 or something. Likewise, even if you are Einstein-reincarnated, you still have to bear the pain of studying with the average "slow" classmates to finish up the course.

===================================

So, adding up the above considerations, the followings are what I have to ask those of you out there:


Q1) What do you think of the Capstone course? I have also read other people in this forum who have done ALM (not in IT, I think) saying that your final thesis/project will MOSTLY not get sponsored by tutors/instructors. If that's so, it's sh*t. 'Cos spending nearly $20,000 and countless of study hours would mean nothing.

Q2) I am planning to apply for Fall, 2005. And I have only some HTML skills and no programming knowledge at all. I understand this is a major problem. So I plan to use this upcoming year to take some Java programming course and get myself certified as Sun Certified Java Programmer (SCJP), so that I will be equipped with the knowledge of programming. Do you think it's alright or still inadequate?

Q3) I know I don't want to be a programmer, so Software Engineering concentration is not for me. Math & Computation is alright, but Info Mgmt Sys attracts me the most. So, I want to know just how many modules can a normal working person take in each semester?

Q4) As I have to finish 3 modules in Harvard physically, I wonder if that can be done in one semester (4-5 months time)? You know, I live in Hong Kong, so going to USA (flight + food + accommodation) can be a hefty fee for me.

Q5) I don't see anything about exams for each module. I can only see the info regarding "Final Exam". So, I wonder, is there going to be any exam for each other module? Or simply coursework? If there are exams, how and where do I take them?

Q6) For that Capstone project, since CSCI E-275 is a (H) course and available online, how do I complete or arrange this project with other course candidates "collaboratively"?

Q7) I myself have an MBA from a UK university. And I want this ALM in IT with a concentration in IMS because I want to direct a few IT projects that I have in mind in the future. Yet, again, I know myself I am good at what and not good at what. So, do you think this ALM in IT would help me achieve my goal?


That's basically the questions I have for now. Hope to discuss with all of you further on this topic.


Best,

Michael

 

Q1) What do you think of the Capstone course? I have also read other people in this forum who have done ALM (not in IT, I think) saying that your final thesis/project will MOSTLY not get sponsored by tutors/instructors. If that's so, it's sh*t. 'Cos spending nearly $20,000 and countless of study hours would mean nothing.

No, no. I obviously haven't gotten to the point where I'm doing a thesis, but Harvard is a very conscientious school. It's not the University of Phoenix, or Small Town U. Besides, from what I've gathered, the Information Management Systems concentration is unique in that it doesn't have a thesis. You enroll in one of the capstone courses in lieu of the thesis. Keep in mind also that the capstone courses are open to other types of ALM in IT candidates, not just IMS. There's nothing particularly out of the ordinary about those "capstone" courses.

Q2) I am planning to apply for Fall, 2005. And I have only some HTML skills and no programming knowledge at all. I understand this is a major problem. So I plan to use this upcoming year to take some Java programming course and get myself certified as Sun Certified Java Programmer (SCJP), so that I will be equipped with the knowledge of programming. Do you think it's alright or still inadequate?

For IMS candidates, I think that would be more than enough programming. For Mathematics or Software Engineering, it may be adequate. Since you seem to be interested in the 275 capstone course, a SCJEA (Sun Certified J2EE Enterprise Architect), might help as well, since students are expected to know things like design patterns and UML before going into the course.

Q3) I know I don't want to be a programmer, so Software Engineering concentration is not for me. Math & Computation is alright, but Info Mgmt Sys attracts me the most. So, I want to know just how many modules can a normal working person take in each semester?

One or two, depending on the course. Two should be manageable most of the time, but with some of the courses might be a bit much. It's rather a mixed bag. Some of the courses are ones that are popular with extension students who are looking for "enrichment". Those should be a cruise. Some of them are primarily for full-time EECS (electrical engineering/computer science) students, and some are primarily for GSAS (graduate school of arts and sciences) students in Harvard College. There, you'll be up against the somewhat more competent students.

Q4) As I have to finish 3 modules in Harvard physically, I wonder if that can be done in one semester (4-5 months time)? You know, I live in Hong Kong, so going to USA (flight + food + accommodation) can be a hefty fee for me.

No problem. I once took three courses for the ALM in IT during the same semester that I took a graduate course (for enrichment) at Brandeis University, as well as taking a supplemental undergraduate course for something unrelated. I got A's in all five courses that semester.

Q5) I don't see anything about exams for each module. I can only see the info regarding "Final Exam". So, I wonder, is there going to be any exam for each other module? Or simply coursework? If there are exams, how and where do I take them?

It depends. You should look at the syllabus for the course in question. Typically, the programming/project oriented courses don't have exams, but are graded on your assignments and projects. Other courses may have final exams. Some other courses have both final exams and midterms. Some courses have lots of projects and give you examinations anyway, which is tough, but that's the way it goes.

Q6) For that Capstone project, since CSCI E-275 is a (H) course and available online, how do I complete or arrange this project with other course candidates "collaboratively"?

They communicate a lot by email, bulletin boards, and whatever else they can manage. Check out http://ubb.dce.harvard.edu/ when the course starts. You'll see a flurry of messages from those students. The professor for that course is quite tough and good. He's also the degree program's director.

Q7) I myself have an MBA from a UK university. And I want this ALM in IT with a concentration in IMS because I want to direct a few IT projects that I have in mind in the future. Yet, again, I know myself I am good at what and not good at what. So, do you think this ALM in IT would help me achieve my goal?

Absolutely! I haven't seen an IMS program anywhere else that teaches the student so much relevant information on the subject. With 48 SH required for the degree, they don't seem to skimp on anything.

 

Hi Tesc,

Thanks for the detailed reply. But I want to know, aren't the answers for Q3 and Q4 quite contradicting? You said 1 ~ 2 would be manageble in A3, but can finish 3 in A4. Is that the difference between distance learning and on campus attendance?

Also, I am not you, and vice versa. Just how can you finish 3 courses for the ALM in IT? And which 3 did you take?

Last but not least, so you suggest I go for the SCJP as well as that SCJEA? (don't you just hate all those abbreviations?) For now, I don't see anything in the SCJEA related to the capstone 275 project. Can you perhaps tell me more?

Thanks for the online forum link from Harvard. I will look into it further.


Thanks again,

Michael

 

Thanks for the detailed reply. But I want to know, aren't the answers for Q3 and Q4 quite contradicting? You said 1 ~ 2 would be manageble in A3, but can finish 3 in A4. Is that the difference between distance learning and on campus attendance?

Ah. In Q3, you asked about a working individual, so I said two. In Q4, you asked about your required resident semester in the States, so I assumed you wouldn't be working. In that case, I think you could take four courses, if you wanted to.

There's really no difference I can see between distance and on-campus, especially since videos of the lectures are provided.

Also, I am not you, and vice versa. Just how can you finish 3 courses for the ALM in IT? And which 3 did you take?

They were Communication Protocols, Unix Systems Programming, and Java for Distributed Computing. To be fair, the last one is a total joke. The other two are solid, challenging courses.

Last but not least, so you suggest I go for the SCJP as well as that SCJEA? (don't you just hate all those abbreviations?) For now, I don't see anything in the SCJEA related to the capstone 275 project. Can you perhaps tell me more?

275's prerequisite is 247, a course on design patterns using Java. 247 and SCJEA are sort of similar. Both have UML modeling projects, for example. If you happen to be an SCJEA, my opinion is that you could legitimately try asking for permission to take 275 without 247.

SCJP is very different from SCJEA. If you had to choose one, I would go for the SCJP so that you can program a little. A person could become an SCJEA without being able to program. I think that 247, which combines both Java architecture and programming, is a bit like taking both the SCJP and SCJEA.

If you don't have good programming skills, but have good management science skills, choosing the right courses in the IMS concentration can help you cover up that weakness and accentuate your strengths. In particular, you can choose the 273 capstone course, and not 275.

 

Opinions Solicited

I'm ankle deep in the ALM in IT (IMS) program now. It seems some of you have already gone through some of the program.

I'm trying to plan out my course work for the next few semesters. So I'm interested in your feedback on the difficulty of each of the classes.

For example, a natural 2 class combo for a semester would be:

- Fundamentals of Website Development (easy)
- Advanced Topics in Data Networking Protocols and Network Architectures (hard)

or

- Practical Perl (moderate)
- Java for Distributed Computing (moderate)

Any advice?

 

Re: Opinions Solicited

I've only taken one of those four, the last one. I would reclassify that one from "moderate" to "a joke". If you scroll up, you'll see why.

Since you're considering the advanced networking course, I assume you're taking 131-b right now. I would call that course high-moderate/low-hard. I've finished five courses, and am currently taking my sixth. Send me a private message if you want to discuss the courses in more detail. I'm always interested in commiserating with other students who are getting their souls crushed by the ALM in IT program.

 

Hi guys,
The ALM in IT looks very interesting and coming from Harvard i think it shold be good. I am considering taking the Software Engineering or the Math& Computation courses. I would like to know if this degree would be better off then say doing CS from other online university and how helpful it will be careerwise. Also how much does the program cost? The courses look really indepth as compared to courses from other universities..Anyway would like to know your thoughts on this.

Thanks

 

The tuition for each course various from $1500 to $2000, so it's not too expensive.

The thing to remember when considering the ALM in IT program is that it's extremely challenging, and for most people, probably impossible. Students drop out of that program like flies, and the school doesn't bat an eyelash. I advice caution. I certainly don't want to discourage people from entering the program, but at the same time, I have always felt sorry for the people who went into the program with great grades, and years of professional programming experience, expecting a normal graduate curriculum, and were burned because they didn't have the natural aptitude necessary to survive there.

As a litmus test, I would ask myself, "Could I go head to head intellectually against my old high school's valedictorian?" because something like 2800 former valedictorians apply to Harvard every year, and in many of the courses, courses that are *B* centered, those are the kind of people you'll be up against.

 

TescStudent thanks for the reply. The ALM IT stated that that student must fulfill a one semester residency requirement to take the course. So i have dont have one semester residency there so i will not be able to do the ALM at all or is there a way around for this? Please let me know if there is anything that can be done for this.
thanks again.

 

The residence period can be at any time, so maybe in the future, you might consider doing 8 weeks of residence during the accelerated summer semester?

I'm not sure where you live, so maybe that would be a problem for you.

I've actually been wondering about the residency thing, too. I live locally, so it's probably not a problem for me, but all the courses I've taken have had DL options (even though the campus is close, I prefer the flexibility). I think that in my case, I just need to provide proof at some point that I live within commuting distance. I think it's a dumb policy, but they don't show any signs of getting rid of it.

 

I have to agree. Don't attempt Harvard half-heartedly.

Some background: I've got a B.S. in Comp Sci from a top-5 program. Accepted to M.I.T. and Harvard back in the '80s. Partner at one of the world's largest technology consulting firms. So you could say I've got some ability when it comes to technology.

The program so far is challenging. Not impossible, but it will demand study and devotion. I'm barely keeping an A while talented (and hardworking) classmates are dropping fast.

I just completed midterms and the carnage all-around is awful. People feel like they just wasted tuition and time. Some even feel misled, as they had no forewarning of the demands. 20hrs/week per class is, so far, a sound expectation.

I hear some upcoming classes are easier. Sure hope so. My wife misses me.

To quote a Harvard prof., "Many are called, few are chosen."

 

I've got the same problem. The courses offered during summer are pretty thin, so I don't think that'll work. There actually seem to be enough non-DL classes in the IT ALM to almost require 1 full year residency. For example, in the IMS track there are 3 core courses that are non-DL. Combine that w/the Capstone or Thesis and you're a very busy full-time student.

I'm trying to solve the "residency riddle" myself. I still haven't found an alternative to moving to Boston for 4-months.

 

Hey Dool your reply was helpful to me.. Well i could make out that the courses of ALM are meant to be taken seriously and are not something to be done pasttime. But the quality and the DL option makes it very tempting for someone like me who likes to go indepth and to the core of the subject of tech and CompSci. I have been looking around alot for courses with DL option that would really teach me something like Algorithm Analysis or how to model things using Math so that it can made into an algorithm instead of programming languages that i already know many and just giving a general view of the subject. Although i would not say that i would find this course easy myself but with passion and hardwork i think i can make it through nicely. Anyway the residency thing is only the obstacle and dont know what to do. I am situated in Charlotte NC though. Only if the residency requirment is taken away....