Founding Fathers Quote of the Day

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by grgrwll, Nov 16, 2004.

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  1. kansasbaptist

    kansasbaptist New Member

    I couldn't agree more. My best friend is Catholic. I grew up in a Southern Baptist home, he was cradle Catholic. Though neither us have successfully "converted" the other, over the years we have eliminated a number of falsehoods, exaggerations, and assumptions we held about each other's beliefs.

    I think relationships among those with differing views (be it denominational or Christian/non-Christian) is generally civil, respectful, and is a genuine effort to understand.
     
  2. grgrwll

    grgrwll New Member

    As I said, this whole thing was prompted by Janko, out of nowhere, telling me (and all non-Christians) that the lord will smite us and we will be eaten by worms.

    I guess that is the Christian definition of civility and respect.
     
  3. dcv

    dcv New Member

    I'm no fan of christianity, but jesus, orwell - you're a drama queen if there ever was one.

    I think these guys are using you to rack up "longsuffering" points. :)
     
  4. kansasbaptist

    kansasbaptist New Member

    grgwll -----
    I was just about to comment about the turn this debate had taken toward civility. Your last fews post have been informative, driving toward a point, void of provactive statements, insinuations, and little snippets meant only to provoke emotion.

    Like I said in my last post, I was really starting to understand your position when you kept your comments on subject.

    There is nothing wrong with being passionate, after all these are serious matters concerning eternity, but when you make hateful and inflaming statements it is hard (at least for me) to see the point you are trying to make.

    Your posts have actually inspired me to look at a philosophical point. Can one reject the deity of Christ, but still trust Christ (as the definition of good) as redeemer. Certainly worth studying, but it took me three pages of posts before finding it.

    Keep challenging me, it helps me strengthen my faith and ensure I have "reason" for what I believe, but try (and again I understand how emotional these debates can get) to sideline the rhetoric, generalizations, and snide remarks. It will benefit us all.
     
  5. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

  6. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    Well, we do have this from kanasbaptist:

    "In matters of SALVATION, this is an absolute and is 100% correct. Without Christ as Savior, you might as well be Hitler; however, regardless of your position on Christianity "being good" is a noble cause that every human should aspire to."

    Does this make sense? Go ahead, try and be good; it's a noble cause, but you'll be riding the train with Hitler unless you accept Christ as Savior.

    This strict interpretation of Christianity is what turns so many off. This requirement is clearly a human construct. It's a selective interpretation of a profoundly human document that one cannot be lead to a life of salvation without accepting Christ. It makes no sense in that non-orthodox Christians are nevertheless subject to strict Christian edicts. Never mind that one might be Muslim, Jewish, or Pagan.

    There are millions of people who consider themselves Christians who nontheless practice a "softer" form of the religion. They see the goodness that is inherent in the teachings of Christ without the militant aftertones that is preached by the orthodox. Those millions are certainly practicing Christianity, and when all is said and done, perhaps a purer form at that (certainly a kinder and gentler form). It is a form more akin to Jefferson's beliefs - heaven and hell are here on earth, in our hearts and in our minds. Does anyone really doubt that?

    I know the answer from the orthodox is that there is no quibbling. One either swallows the whole pill or nothing. You buy off on everything, or you're on your way to an eternity of suffering. Nope. Don't buy it. The orthodox are not preaching to the choir in this case. The church is empty, as a matter of fact. That singing you hear is across the street - at the other church, where they say live and let live; create heaven here on earth; accept your brother man here on earth; believe in Christ OR Buddha, or Mohammed, or Vishnu, or Alfred E. Newman for that matter; the proof is in the pudding, not in the peddling.
     
  7. kansasbaptist

    kansasbaptist New Member

    I would like to clarify my position somewhat.

    I do believe that acceptance as Jesus Christ as Messiah is essential to salvation. I do believe that Jesus is the only way.

    However, I do not scream and holler and preach a ministry of hellfire. I want every person to know the peace of Christ that rules my life.

    I sincerly believe that my savior made a simple request of me and that is to spread the Good News and be His presence on earth as He was my presence on the cross.

    I wish no ill to anyone. I have a geniune loving heart, that is why I spread the truth as I know it to be.
     
  8. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    This, of course, is a lie. I never said anything of the kind. I compared the melodramatic death of Yasser Arafat--murderer, thief, terrorist, anti-Semite, despoiler of his own people, wrecker of Lebanon--to the melodramatic death of Herod recorded in the Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament.

    Since grgwll is a liar, a slanderer, and a hater, the lie, the slander, and the hate speech are to be expected.

    I might have hoped that someone else would have pointed out the lie--some of my sane liberal and also some of my sanely non-Christian colleagues come to mind--but I guess it's Martin Niemoeller's "when they came for...I was silent" paradigm at work. Too bad.

    Oh, and by the way, when I quit posting on this part of degreeinfo, I never said I would never post here again. (Pre-emptive strike against the next lie.) But I don't plan to post here very often. Only when I get really tired of being lied about. Other than shills, the other fora are usually more, um, temperate.

    Some folks fit in better with the Douglas-obsession on another site than they do with the overwhelming majority of participants on degreeinfo, whether liberal or conservative, religious or secular, or whatever.
     
  9. Janko tells it straight...

    Sorry I missed the turn the discussion had taken Janko - been busy with real life stuff for a while now that the election hysteria is over. In any case, had I seen this garbage I would have jumped in to point out the BS as it manifested itself.

    My experience with you is that you tell it like it is, you don't back down, you have strong opinions about your faith, and that you are a man of absolute integrity. But you are most certainly not a hate mongerer or some demented representative of Christian intolerance that grgwll slanders you with.

    We don't always agree, but I'd rather be head to head with you for a day than spend 2 seconds in the presence of bloated chat room grandstanders like grgwll.

    <End Reginstein Grandstand>
     
  10. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Multumesc foarte mult, mein Kamerad.
     
  11. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    A few posts back I tried to steer this discussion back to Jefferson and religion. I even provided a link to a halfway-interesting article... which, obviously, didn't work.

    [sigh]

    After that I started just sort of circling back now and then and reading groups of them at a time instead of following it religiously. [Hey, did I make a pun?]

    Ahem:
    • IT'S A DAMNED LIE!
    There. Sorry, Janko. Better late than never, though, eh?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2004
  12. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Yup. Multumesc foarte mult, comrade.

    "...in Reason's ear they all rejoice..."--Joseph Addison
     

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