Foreign Doctorates

My biased sugestion is to stay away from anything online or small and private. It also sounds like you might need to strike a balance between your desire to teach (thus perhaps needing a business accreditation) and your desire for something that appeals to you. As for Henley, I have found many DBA grads teaching in a variety of European and UK universities. I am uncertain as to whether Henley would be accepted everywhere in the USA. But it is accredited by that certain association in UK. Heriot Watt also has a new doctorate (but unaccredited - HW has some issues with that particular accreditor and I am inclined to believe that the HW doctorate is most excellent). DeMontfort is highly rated as a research uni in UK but I don't know if DMU has such business accreditation.

There is also uni of North London. One thing to do is to look at faculty rosters of many "good" US business schools and see what European universities are represented in the faculty. If you see any particular Euro/UKuniversities regularly popping up, then investigate them and see what you find in terms of accreditation.
If accreditation is the game, then seemingly, you wil have to play it to get into your desired teaching position.
Earon

 

Excerpt from Tacit Racism in California's CPPVE/BPPVE?

 

Re: Re: Forgive me...and get real!

I think that happens quite a bit. Drawing examples from my old undergraduate school:

Here's some publications from SFSU's cryogenic electronics (superconducting microchips) group:

http://coolchips.sfsu.edu/WEBPubs$.html

Of these authors, I know that Chow, Cunningham, Drury, Hake, Owens and Lopez were students at the time.

Here's some papers out of Zhigang Chen's quantum optics lab at SFSU, with student authors noted by asterisks:

http://www.physics.sfsu.edu/~laser/laserlab/publications/publications.html

And of course, there's this. It's operating out of UC Berkeley now, but it started at SF State and a number of student authors were (and are) involved. In particular, publishing in this research group catapaulted Paul Butler (now of the Anglo-Australian Observatory in Siding Springs NSW) into being one of the world's foremost astronomers.

http://exoplanets.org/teamframe.html

He got his SFSU M.S. in astrophysics with this thesis which helped start the whole thing:

1987 ``A Precision Astronomical Instrument to Measure Doppler Shifts´´, R.P.Butler, San Francisco State University, Master of Science in Physics.

Among the current research staff is David Nidever who, despite not having completed his masters yet, already has a couple of published papers with Marcy and is already serving as an instructor at SF State.

OK, besides puffing up my old school, what does this illustrate? That, just as Telfax wrote, having a generic degree is probably less important in the scholarly world than what a student's been doing, who he or she has been working with, and what they have to show for it. Butler didn't become a star because he earned a Ph.D., he became a star because he had been instrumental in discovering planets orbiting other stars, and came with Geoffrey Marcy's personal recommendation. That kind of stuff influences hiring committees at research institutions.

 

Hi Mike,
Yep, those are definitely some of my thoughts. But you left out some stuff. I was around AED since late 1995 and know what Steve wrote on almost everything - I'm actually a fan of Steve. That doesn't mean I have to agree with him on anything/everything he writes. You forgot to mention what I wrote about Steve's exemplary dissertation "The New Song of Shilo". You also forgot to include my opinion that Steve's ideas are definitely "consumer friendly" and that "Levicoff's ideas are understandable when one thinks of consumers' safety", and how Steve "wrote viciously on unaccredited schools, diploma mills, and phony 'accreditation mills' ". Premature mental ejaculation, Mike. Oh what the heck, here's the whole thing on Levicoff:
Earon

Quote
>>>>>>>>>>>
Visiting team member Dr. Everett Proctor taught at the Union Institute and is specialized in religious studies and classics. Interestingly, if not coincidently, another individual affiliated with the Union Institute is Dr. Steve Levicoff, a doctoral graduate of the Union Institute specialized in Religion and Law. While at the Union Institute, Levicoff wrote an exemplary dissertation on a activist prison church, "The New Song of Shilo". Levicoff emerged in the mid-nineties as one of the most outspoken and vicious internet-based critics of CPU (based in part on research grounded in his own opinions and hearsay). Did these men know each other?

Levicoff is also a BA graduate of the above-mentioned Thomas Edison State College (TESC), and a graduate of the nontraditional Vermont College of Norwich University (MA). I have in my possession a letter from the TESC Registrar's office (dated 1993) which implies a bias without evidence that CPU was a questionable school and that a CPU degree was of little value. Are Levicoff's ideas from TESC? Did Levicoff influence Proctor to participate on the visiting committee with a bias? Levicoff's ideas purportedly have influence with such powers as the US Dept of Education (one of his publications is residing on Dept. of ED's website), and the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization's administrator Alan Contreras.

Levicoff's major message is that only USA regionally accredited distance degrees can be trusted, and that unaccredited institutions (with few exceptions) cannot be trusted because of the lack of credible third party monitoring and the reality that most universities will not accept unaccredited degrees for advanced study. This is an ultra-conservative, but ultimately consumer-friendly attitude, and Levicoff's view is understandable when one thinks of consumers' safety. During the mid-nineties Levicoff operated under the name "The Institute of Religion and Law" and wrote viciously on unaccredited schools, diploma mills, and phony 'accreditation mills'. There is currently no available evidence to indicate if Levicoff was contracted by interested parties to discredit schools such as CPU. Levicoff's writings can be accessed by standard Internet search and by searching Deja.Com. Dr. Levicoff , by his own choice, is currently employed as a long distance truckdriver.
End of Quote
http://www.altcpualumni.org/chronicles/blackdeans.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

C'mon Rich, and your poised to possibly publish on your research and position yourself as an expert on distance/alternative approaches to higher education? No need for me to do what you suggest above, Rich. I'm usually quite thorough with my research.

As for U of Bremen, welcome to the UNiversity of Bremen:
http://www.uni-bremen.de/studium/studium_en.php3
Consider yourself a little further enlightened.

That link is directly from the article I wrote at:
http://www.altcpualumni.org/chronicles/blackdeans.html

As for your other posts I'll respond to them when I get a little more time, later tonight or tomorrow.
Earon

 

Sometimes I feel that there is a secret club with secret hand shakes and coded messages.....

I am trying to follow this posting, with the links, etc., but think there is a reading between the lines that a new person, who does not know these people would not get......

One day I hope to become part of the club, but for now a bit confused.

 

Do a search. Find the Carpathia Country Club. (I forget where I left it.) You can join. Hell, you can be an officer. I just work there.

Or you can join the secret treehouse of the truly righteous, and learn to be officious and to allude to stuff that happened years ago, or was written years ago and is no longer available, or was said by somebody to somebody somewhere between Key West and Mars, or fire off MiGS in all directions, or join the Union, or whatever your lil heart desires.

 

Kristie,
Are you talking about the goings-on here on degreeinfo?
If so, you may be onto something. This venue has some history, going back to AED at least to 1995 (AED stands for alt.education.distance). Degreeinfo started up as a moderated alternative to AED (in early 2001 I believe... drat my memory's going), after AED was spammed continually by enemies of Bear, presumably they were degree mill operators. There may also have been some cyber sociopaths spamming there as well.

There is most certainly a dominant view here. That dominant view is "in the USA Regional Accreditation is the best way to go - anything less has far less utility". I have no contest with this view. There are certain things one doesn't say (e.g., "unaccredited institutions are good"; "state approved degrees are legal and valid"; "Greenwich U and Columbia Pacific were excellent institutions"; "an unaccredited PhD will get you a faculty position at a university"). If one states anything that goes against the dominant view, a number of 'regulars' will come out to prove you are wrong (e.g., see the discussion "All State Approved Degrees are Legal and Legitimate"). Oh... there's also a custom of not flaming Levicoff, or as one commented back in 1997/1998, "you'll need an asbestos suit". But that, too, is changing. Levicoff's opinion seems to be seen now as just another opinion (and he rarely shows up to play anymore).

There is the front channel; what you see on the table as discussed, argue, debated, etc. There is the "back channel", what is communicated behind the scenes via email. I have no idea about that because I rarely use that system.

Degreeinfo is not eactly Freemasonry, but there are definitely ways of going on in discussion here that require some observing of the locals. People can be quite passionate about their opinions, especially the US regional accreditation stuff, and the quest to rid the universe of degree mills or shady operators.

If you parrot the dominant views regularly enough you will become part of the club - maybe an insider. If you break from the dominant view, as Rich Douglas did when he became involved with MIGS a couple of years ago, you will be require a tuneup and some rehabilitation before getting back in to the inside circle.

OK...I'll admit it, Degreeinfo is a cult, but at least it can be a fun cult, and people definitely get some benefit from observing the goings-on, particularly on the degree-mill/scam school issue).
Earon

 

Hi Janko
(sorry, I'm not gonna call you "uncle").
I tracked your reference to "Carpathia Country Club" to Rich Douglas' posting last fall entitled "C-Ya".

Can you expand a little on what you mean by the term and what you are saying in the above quote? I sense that it is embedded with both humor and wit, but I fail to fully grasp what you are stating. And I am most curious about what that is. Sorry if my request seems a bit pesty - but I think you have got something interesting to say with the above, and I am trying to understand it as fully as possible. Thanks much,
Earon

 

Originally posted by Earon Kavanagh


RICH, FROM ABOVE:
I'm from Calfornia. So did I bring down CPU?

EARON:
With all due respect, Rich, I think for a moment you have chcked into your own fantasy.

RICH:
Honestly, I have no idea what that means.

I just wanted to suggest that you made some leaps in logic with your article. And I stand by the notion that it is a loooooong leap from a few academics jumping to negative conclusions about a couple of other academics' credentials and the conspiracy you suggest.

EARON:
You're right, Rich (all Cretins aren't necessarily fishers). You're being "from California" means exactly that - you're from california.
What it means is that you made your own leap in logic in your own assumption's of the meaning of what I wrote. You lept into your own valu/belief system - which is where most of us "speak from" anyway, even if we are making truth claims about the nature of practices surrounding education. I try to make no truth claims.

EARON
I do pose a number of questions in the article, for which I admit I have no answers. But I do have the questions. Suffice it to say that they are questions that have not yet evolved into hypotheses. I'm exercising integrity by posing questions which I honestly have.

RICH
I feel the questions you pose are irresponsible. They're mere speculation. That you pose them without support--much less an attempt to answer them--is misguided, or even deceitful. If you have something that points to the conspiracy you suggest, then present it.

EARON
I disagree. I have gathered certain facts which are corroborated by documents. Those facts lead me to ask cartain other questions. I have not been able to yet answer those questions.

RICH
I don't care whether or not you have a "beef" with Levicoff. It's irrelevant to my point.

EARON
The mention of Levicoff had no reference to the previous text I was responding to originating from you. It was a reference to a text by someone else came preceded yours. I made a mistake in not offering some context as to what the "no beef with Levicoff" respnse was in reference to. I had also assumed that you would have read all of the texts posted to the overall discussion, as I usually do. I think now that I was incorrect in making that assumption about your practice here. I realize you may feel a little sensitive to the term "Levicoff" lately, as I have witnessed him recently injecting himself under your skin.

RICH
As for my dissertation, it has not yet been presented to UIU, so I can't post it anywhere. Of course, it will be available through UMI after I graduate. This is the norm for people who've graduated from accredited schools. Those graduating from unaccredited or foreign schools might select other alternatives.

If you want to read someone's dissertation--and that person has graduated from an accredited school--consider purchasing or borrowing it.

EARON
I'm aware of what the "norm" is. Of course, there is no such norm for graduates of unaccredited schools, which is one more item that sets up doubt about the outputs of unaccredited schools. And UMI won't accept dissertations from unaccredited schools, so that also helps construct such doubt. I made no reference to your dissertation specifically (perhaps you're being a little narcissistic in anticipation of your impending defence, graduation, and possible publishing of 'what really goes on' surrounding distance education?).

The reference goes back to a musing by Bear some years ago on AED. Bear mused that it would be an interesting exercise to collect and compare dissertations of accredited and unaccredited schools. I thought that this was an excellent idea but there were no takers. In 1999/2000 I re-issued the same invitation and posted my masters thesis on the internet. Levicoff's was also on the internet.

Earon

 

The Unk is our very own Carpathian peasant descended from sturdy Carpathian stock.

Beside Uncle Janko, the Carpathian Mountains are best known for Count Dracula and a mish-mash of ethnicities who kowtowed to every passing empire in the area where east meets west.

Carpathia Country Club - I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member. (Marx - Groucho not Karl)

 

Kristi:

I've been reading these guys comments for some time now, and believe me, you don't want to be a member.

As for Kiev not being in Russia: oops, my mistake. Although I really don't give a rat's ass how Ukranians felt about it.

 

ps.

Union Institute must be the greatest university in the U.S. Every student and graduate is an expert on everything. Must be because of the interdisiplinary approach.

 

Statements made by Rich, replied to by Earon:

RICH
Worse, you used innuendo to imply something that you cannot establish. They're your questions. You raised them, you answer them. But to answer your rhetorical questions with silence is to imply that there is validity to them.

EARON:
Rich, you seem preoccupied with establishing things. My questions are not rhetorical as you imply. My questions are based on facts that are corroborated by supplied documents. Those facts supported by my thorough reading of said documents raise questions for me. I then pose those questions. I don't need to be "responsible" in the way that you do because I'm not making any truth claims, whereas in your research approach you will be making truth claims which you will then have to validate. You don't like my questions because they perhaps chip at your own account of events, your own constructions of what is real and good in distance ed, or because I take a critical stance. So you then approach me with a rhetorical argument to invalidate my questions. The questions won't go away, whether you consider them valid or invalid.

RICH
Bill's assumptions are at least based on observable facts. "Angry" is a conclusion, true, and you might not be angry. And maybe "burned" doesn't describe you and your degree from CPU. But the rest of it is a lot more tangible than your conspiracy theory about CPU's denial. Perhaps they were wronged. But so far the courts have not agreed.

EARON
First of all, Rich, this discussion and my contribution to it has not been about cpu. It is about the perceived value of legitimate foreign doctorates. My role in this discussion started when I introduced a story about a site inspection visit team of american academics with doctorates who refused to accept the credentials of two foreign academics as valid credentials for faculty positions in california. Let's not try to shift who attains what speaking credibility by shifting the topic to something else. Also, once again you attempt to rhetorically categorize my practice of questioning as "less than", by implying a conspiracy theory, a term which I have never used and will not use. However, for those who like to engage in or follow the construction of "conspiracy theories" there is interesting documented court testimony available.

That testimony was provided to the california appeals court by Dr. Betty Dow, a state of california employee.
see: http://www.altcpualumni.org/chronicles/dow.html

Earon

 

OK Plumbdog,
Time for another dumb question.
Why would you not want to be a member?
Earon

 

Hi Plumbdog,
Whay do you think graduates of the union institute could be an expert on everything. Do they make such claims here?
Thanks,
Earon

 

Bite me!

 

Earon: You can join too. Bring a mop and a bucket. This is a low-budget organization and good help is hard to find. I know this because the paychecks I write to myself keep bouncing. Let me emphasize, though, that this is a country club, not a university; we are addebited, not accredited.

Pup: ...and you can't spell Ukrainian, either. Durak!

 

This from a place where they can't even get all their alphabet letters to face the right way.

 

Hey, careful! My wife's from over that way.
Earon