Ed.D. in Aviation and Space

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by chrisjm18, Nov 15, 2021.

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  1. Alpine

    Alpine Member

    Like I said its been “justified” for over three decades of producing Ed.D graduates in aviation and space education. Do the research and see where there graduates are employed. Are there directors of training for major airlines? Professors of aviation studies? Military aviation program directors? Curriculum and training developers for aircraft manufacturers? More importantly, is the track record of OSU’s Ed.D graduates making a positive impact in the aviation and space idustry overall. Then decide if the program is a good fit for you.

    Personally, I have absolutely no reservations about pursuing an Ed.D. at OSU in aviation and space eduction.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  2. not4profit

    not4profit Active Member

    Based on your logic, any program that produces graduates is "justified." The question is not whether the graduates went on to do good stuff. The question is whether the EdD is the appropriate degree type (as opposed to DM, PhD, etc), given the complete lack of ed related focus in the curriculum. Nobody is pooping on the degree or its graduates. But, you expect a PhD to have a research and theory focus, a DM to have a management focus, and an EdD to have an education focus. You shouldn't have to hunt for dissertations to try to come up with ways the degree is linked to education. It should be apparent in the program description and the curriculum. This should be a DM or other similar degree, based on the program materials. I suspect that this is an EdD because it is housed in the school of education, and not the other way around.
     
  3. Alpine

    Alpine Member

    b
    One really needs access to the syllabii of the coursework to make a judgement if the core courses to this particular 30 plus year Ed.D program has an “ed focus.” The catalog states it is “applied educational studies” which means how these subjects apply to the real world and approaches on how to teach them. Perhaps other Ed.D. programs focus more on the theory of learning or the administration of learning instead of the uniqueness of the application of applied educational studies within aviation and space education?
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  4. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    No hiring manager will review syllabi to determine if that program has an education focus. Merely looking at the transcript of an Ed.D. in Aviation and Space graduate will tell the hiring manager that the degree is NOT education-focused and does not fit into the scope of an Ed.D. This degree is unlikely to help anyone get an educational leadership/administration position, requiring a doctorate in a related discipline. The OSU program will also carry very little weight for many faculty positions requiring a doctorate (particularly a Ph.D.) in aviation and space or a related area. Many faculty positions outside of education will explicitly state that an Ed.D. will not be considered.
     
  5. Alpine

    Alpine Member

    On the contrary! Completion of the dissertation is evidence of the rigor of the doctoral journey. It is my understanding that many countries offer dissertation only doctorates indicating to me that this country has a lot of core courses that are simply bullsh!t overall!
     
  6. Alpine

    Alpine Member

    Greetings Chris from Jamaica
    Thanks again for your find. I have mentioned it to a couple friends of mine who work in the aviation industry and they are very intrigued. DI has been a great resource for many and its people like you who put the energy and effort in getting the word out when you come across interesting online programs.
    Cheers!

    In regards to your comments, the OSU Ed.D is, “applied educational studies.” The aviation sector will understand that because theoretical doesn’t cut it! The practice of flying airplanes is very applied and they don’t say, “lets try this” because passengers would freak out!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  7. Alpine

    Alpine Member

    Additionally, very few aviation professionals hold a doctoral degree. It is very rare! Many hold bachelors degrees and FAA licenses. This industry relys heavily on hiring people with years of experience in training and evaluation of pilots that move up the ranks to program manager or director of flight operations and training. The degrees are simply a side note and aircraft specific type ratings and FAA licenses are crucial. Typically you’ll see a guy who flew as a Captain and lost his medical qualifications take a pay cut to continue working in the area of training pilots. Getting a higher degree doesn’t have a return on investment in this industry. Many airline pilots came from a military background with millions of dollars invested in their flight training. The last thing they want to do is earn a doctorate in education when they can fly the line and make five times as much money than an educator! It may be a good retirement gig to teach at some university but usually a masters degree and a flight instructor license is more than adequate. It obviously appeals to some people and good for them in wanting to make a difference in aviation safety!
     
  8. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I appreciate your rationale but I do not agree with it.

    lipstick_on_a_pig.jpg
     
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    This conversation is a textbook example of Sayre's Law....
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    There's a reason WHY very few aerospace people have a doctorate in the field. It isn't necessary. So why spend tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours earning this degree? I don't see the appeal unless it is fully funded.
     
  11. Alpine

    Alpine Member

    That could be said for many degrees and even if it was fully funded it still may not be useful!

    As a side note, I wrote the Dean to get an answer on the lack of pedagogy and educational theory within this particular program. These are valid concerns. I guess I am looking at these concerns more as an arrogance of the posters. Why is that? Because I see a regionally accredited state university that has a history of producing Doctors of Education in Aviation and Space Education that produced and defended dissertations in that field. I feel like, "who the hell are you knuckleheads to question it" especially because many of you couldn't care less about enrolling in the program in the first place....... but just want something to bitch about. However, I now realize it is a good question and there is a need to poke and prod and test the validity. With that said, the utility is a concern but more importantly the return on investment of time and money.
     
  12. Alpine

    Alpine Member

    The picture should be a space-suited monkey with lipstick. Or perhaps a robot with lipstick since the future points to everything going to unmanned piloted aircraft.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  13. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Except, the expression is "lipstick on a pig," not monkeys or robots. Anyway, the future of unmanned aviation scares me.
     
  14. Alpine

    Alpine Member

    I get it! Just trying to be funny since monkeys were the first into space and robots are the future.
     
  15. not4profit

    not4profit Active Member

    While it is likely true that I am an arrogant knucklehead, I also have an EdD and I have seen the misapplication of the degree further reduce its utility and reputation. Your concern is aviation. My concern is the continued hits to the credibility of the EdD in general. Unfortunately, I see this program as potentially adding to that problem.
     
  16. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    A very pretty pig, indeed! I am looking as this program in terms of whether it saddles the student with gigantic debt without offering a reasonable chance of an adequate financial return. I apply this reasoning to law degrees as well and I therefore never recommend that anyone go to law school unless it can be done for free or nearly as I managed to do long ago.
     
  17. Alpine

    Alpine Member

    We certainly have seen the transformation of higher education over the decades to a paradigm that wants to turn every discipline or field into a doctor of something. Why the push for physician assistants to have doctorates of medical science or nurse practitioners, physical therapists, athletic trainers, and pilots to be doctors? I was told if you want to find the answer to most questions, simply follow the money trail. Education is a big $$$ business and sadly not for the educators. Most pilots however struggled as certified flight instructors for poverty wages to build flight hours and experience for higher-paying jobs. Except for a very few, they would be very turned off about spending money to pursue an Ed.D. That's probably why there are very few schools that offer this program.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  18. Alpine

    Alpine Member

    My guess is that many students are in-house instructors employed by the University and teach flight training or undergraduate academics and receive some form of tuition benefit. The remainder are employed in industry or the military. Some Ed.D. in aviation education degree holders have become consultants and provide lectures and human factors training to organizations that are seeking to reduce human error in the workplace. I'm not concerned in the slightest.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  19. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Like I said, "fully funded".
     
  20. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    You don't need to read syllabi to get an idea of what a course covers; you just need the course description. Only two of the core courses are related to education. There's an elective called Statistical Methods in Education. It appears that completing your dissertation in something related to education is optional. My conclusion is that this is not an education degree. They're probably offering it in this format to allow students more flexibility in thesis topics. The dissertation described below probably would have not been accepted in their PhD in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering: Unmanned Aerial Systems program.

    https://news.okstate.edu/articles/education-human-sciences/2021/aviation-space-doctorate-helps-us-air-force-lieutenant-colonel.html

    University of Western States has an EdD in Sports Psychology and an EdD in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. Neither program has anything to do with education. Many sports psychologists just happen to work for university athletics programs, but this still isn't an education program. A traditional dissertation is optional, so my guess is this is the reason why these programs are EdDs and not PhDs. They could have made the sports psychology program a PsyD.
     

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